An Uncharted Program: Interview with founder & Owner of Veteran Tax Credits (VTC)

This episode is brought to you by act now education, go to www dot act now education comm for a free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty veterans, military spouses and children.

So I mean, here is this amazing program the government created that if we just take advantage of it, know how to use it that can shorten the amount of time it takes for us to find employment. You know, there's no reason for us not to take advantage of that. And I wanted, I wanted that to be there for for my brothers and sisters. This is an amazing program that they're not getting to leverage today because they don't know about it and don't have the means to do it. So I wanted to make, you know, I just wanted to give back and, and put some time and energy into solving that problem. And so that's what I did.

Thank you for tuning in today, folks. Today, our guest is Mr. Craig Washburn, who is the founder and CEO of veteran tax credit. His company has the authority for helping veterans find employment utilizing the Work Opportunity Tax Credit, otherwise known as w. o TC, you see, many people don't know this, but there are programs that actually incentivize businesses to hire military veterans. But navigating that red tape is something VTC offers their top tier expertise with assistance, linking up that incentive. And the opportunity is the number one mission of Mr. Washburn's company. Craig, I'd like to thank you for joining me today. It's great to be here, KP and so excited to be part of the morning formation podcast, ya know, the honors all mine, I really when I started reading into VTC, and once you guys offered it, it really is a undiscovered gem. And so I'd like to just get into it and learn a little bit about you where you're originally from, and tell us a little bit about your time in the Navy.

Sure. Well, I grew up in the great state of Florida, as a surf rat, and I love the beach, and essentially worked my way through high school and, and then went to college, straight out of high school, but I'd made a deal with my parents that I was going to pay for half my school. And college was a lot more expensive than I expected it to be. And unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a job when I got to school, and within the first semester, I was running out of money. So, you know, this was all around the time that the first Gulf War was heating up. And, you know, I had to make a decision, either, you know, man up and take care of myself, or go back home and live with mom and dad and, you know, go to community college or something like that. And, you know, I just felt like, it was time for me to move on and take ownership of my own life. So, you know, with everything going on with iraq at the time, it just, you know, the stars aligned, and it made sense, it was a way for me to serve my country and, and get a little bit of money for college at the same time. So I actually joined the Navy, it was January 3 of 1991. So about two weeks into boot camp is when the invasion started. So the first Gulf War started. That was kind of an interesting experience. Because the you know, the company commanders come on in and they get us all lined up like we normally do. And then they broke the news that we're going to war. And, you know, if you guys are listening, what we say and don't learn what we're going to teach you, it's gonna be the difference between living and dying, and they had us all worked up. But it you know, it segwayed into a really good conversation around. This is why we have chain of command. This is why it's important to have attention to detail and all of the different things that we learn when we go through the bootcamp. So that was my, that was my foray into the Navy, spent four years in two years in a Helicopter Squadron. So the sh 60 bees in their ag Squadron where we were training pilots how to fly those birds, and then transition from there to the Saratoga, who's no longer with us. She has been mothballed. But did a deployment on the Saratoga, and actually was over there during the Bosnia Herzegovina conflict where we were enforcing a no fly zone over there. So great times. You know, obviously, as somebody who's a military Brother, you understand that there's a lot of ups and downs of the military life. But, you know, I took more away from it than I could have anywhere else. It was just such an amazing opportunity for me to to learn the things personally that I needed to know you know, obviously we get skills that come along with it but kind of the the cell Accountability aspect of it, and the discipline that comes along with being in the military, and then the leadership side of it. Right? It was amazing experience that I took a lot away from and was happy to serve. And now I'm happy to be serving again.

Yeah, actually, when I, when I went through basic training, you know, there wasn't anything going on at the time. But I don't know if you're aware of it. But a lot of times in the middle of actual basic training, I think every branch does this, where they do sort of like a false alarm, where they take everyone into a room, and then they announced that, hey, we're getting ready to go to war, you guys are gonna get deployed, just to let just as an exercise to let that sink in that that is real, that could be reality. And so for you, it was reality, and it was a real thing. And it was really happening at the time. That's, that's pretty amazing in itself. And I can't imagine, like, you know, you being a young man thinking about, you know, wow, like, I knew that chances were there, but I didn't really think that we would be going to war. And no, it's amazing. And I tell you something else, too. Raising your right hand, and actually leaving for the military takes a lot of guts, we don't give ourselves enough credit, many times, but to leave home and to jump into the unknown, of joining the military, because, you know, you don't know what to expect. So it took a lot of fortitude for yourself to leave home in it at an early age and for all of us out there. So yeah, you know, that's something that we should definitely take into consideration. And I'd like to, I'd like to hear more about your your transition from the military to finding civilian employment, and how did that work out for you?

So, you know, that's, it's a great question. And, you know, I tell people all the time, it doesn't matter what rank you leave the military, I mean, if you leave as an E three, or an O eight, it's, you know, it's the same transition for everybody, at least in one regard. And that is, we've got now have to take everything that we've known, and then translate it into something that we don't know, right, because most of us, we join the military, when we're young, right. And there are exceptions of people who, you know, do corporate America or do some sort of job first and then move into the military. But the vast majority of us, we, you know, we enter in our late teens, and then start that journey. And it's, as you know, it starts with boot camp. Our whole world changes, the culture changes, the rules change, everything changes from civilian world into military, and you have to adapt, or you get forced out. Because there's no room for dissension in the military, so when we, when we learn this new way, and then we've got to leave and move back into the civilian world, especially if you've been in the military for any length of time. At fortunately, Allah was only in for four years, I think about my brothers and sisters that retire after 20 or 25 years of service, and then trying to make that leap. But the biggest thing is, is that when we do it, we all face that same first challenge. And that's to get our feet planted on the other side, right. And so for me, there is a little bit of that, I went straight back to college, when I got out of the military. So I didn't have to dive right into the job front. But even adapting to college life. I mean, I'd remember college life, four years before I got gotten into the military, and then coming out, you just feel different, you know, there's something different about you. And that's part of what we what we become when we become servicemen and women. So fitting in was a little bit more challenging. Obviously, you don't have very many people around you that have shared experiences. So I was fortunate enough to meet a few vets at the college I went to that we became fast friends, just because we could speak the language and we could lean on each other. Right? And then, you know, post-college, it was time to get work. And then it was alright. Now how do I translate what I did in the military to the civilian world in a way that people will understand it and appreciate it so that I can get the job. And in transition today is so much better. I mean, I know there are a lot of people say that it's it's lacking and I would agree in some respects that it's still not where we want it to be. But it is leaps and bounds above what it was when I got out. I mean, I we I went down to the MW our office for two hours and they hit me a packet with some resume templates and said Good luck. And that was it. I mean, it it was it was not what it is today, so I didn't have that translation skill. ability. And, you know, it was it was challenging. You know, I I got fortunate enough that, that I just had the job. Drive to succeed no matter what. So I put my head to the ground and started looking for opportunities and doing the legwork. And back in the day when you actually could send resumes to a person, or you could actually show up to the front door and ask for the HR manager and actually talk to somebody, right? I mean, today, you know, you've got to use the digital world where you feel like you fall into a black hole every time you send a resume somewhere. But I was fortunate enough to work my way into my first roles and started off doing financial planning. Little interim gig of running a health club before I did that, but I mean, even there that transition, you know, as an employee, when I first started at the financial services company, I did very well, because, you know, discipline, mindset, just, I came to work to work. And it didn't take long, within six months, I was out in right out writing everybody in my office, I mean, people that have been in financial services for 20 years, I was mopping the floor with them, just because I had the work ethic. But when I moved into the position of leadership, which was ultimately what happened. It was, that's where some of the stuff started to shake itself out. Because, you know, I wouldn't have morning meetings with my team and say, you know, here's what we got going on this week. This is what is expected of you, this is what's expected of you, let's go and get to work, right? Well, it didn't take long before I got called into my manager's office say, Hey, you know, we're getting complaints from HR that you're being way too firm. I'm like, how am I being too firm? I'm just telling them what we need to get done. Right? Like, yeah, but you got to soften the tones. And so it was, you know, it was a while to learn that stuff, those those soft skills that we don't use in the military and the military, it's to get the job done. And that's it, do it?

Yeah, you know, I definitely think in the military, it's much easier to tell, you know, you have a rank structure, and you kind of know where you stand. And you know, that if the NCO tells you to move out, you move out and tells you to do whatever you go do it. And in the civilian world, you might have to have a little bit more finesse to, to be a leader. So I understand what you're saying about that. And so, from your transition, at what point did you decide to start your business veteran tax credits?

You know, it's, it was after a while, you know, I did the corporate grind for quite a long time. And then I finally just got to a point in life where there's nothing wrong with corporate America, it is what it is. But it felt like I was always having to ask permission to do things that I knew were gonna benefit the company. And it didn't ever feel like I was really in charge of my own destiny, I was helping other you know, helping this organization. But it just, you know, I felt like I needed to be in charge of my own destiny. So in 2007, I left corporate america and open my first company, which was an insurance based company, and then opened my second company shortly after that which Mark migrated insurance benefits for for businesses into other HR solutions. So anything that was human capital related, or HR related, I had built solutions to help companies with those types of things. And then about six and a half years ago, I found out about this veteran tax credit thing for the first time. And I was number one, at first, I was in denial, and like, there's no such thing. And they're like, no, really there is and I'm like, Why? Why don't I know about it? And that can't be. But as I did the research, I found out I'm like, Well, okay, well, maybe I'm just a Neanderthal. I've been dragging my knuckles the past 20 years and haven't been paying attention. But as I started talking to that, so I served with and I was volunteering with a VSO and in Dallas, Texas, where we were helping transitioning veterans and ask them about it and talk to the vets that were part of that program. And they didn't know about it either. And then I started reaching out to my clients, because hiring vets getting a tax credit sounds like a HR type thing, right? So I should know about from that perspective, too. So I reached out to my clients, and 95% of them had no idea what it was. There were two that did, I had tried it and then we got frustrated with it and quit. So I realized that there was a huge delta and in the communication around this program. So I finally I just said, You know what, I'm going straight to the horse's mouth. So I went to the Department of Labor, and I went to the workforce agency in Texas and said, walk me through this program. And at the end of it, I said, Now, why in the hell Don't I know about it? And the answer was simple. They're like, Look, you know, this program has been around for a long time. It's a federally funded program, but every state manages their own teams that do this and certifications. And, and we're limited in resources limited in personnel, and we do the best that we can. But it kind of is what it is. It's available for everybody. They just have to know about it and to use it. And like, well, that's an answer, but it wasn't an answer I liked. So that's where I really started to kind of put my head around it and try to figure out, alright, how do we solve this? Because at the core, this program is amazing. I mean, there are very few government programs out there that truly are a win for everybody involved. But this is one of them. Because the the intent of the program is to incentivize businesses to hire both veterans and non veterans, because there are other target groups that have historically faced barriers to employment. And we know as veterans, it's something that we all have to face, right? I mean, it's that translation of what did we do? And how does that correlate to corporate America? And so there are those challenges along with some of the unconscious unconscious biases of hiring managers and HR departments around hiring us, because they think that if you're in the military, you know, you were, every one of us was being bombed, and we all you know, want to shoot up the place. And that's not the case, right? I mean, we don't all have PTSD, and a lot of us that do happiest PTSD are still very functioning, we just have, you know, things that we've got to deal with Yes, to, right, now, kind of just get that stuff out of our heads. But bottom line was, is that they're just there, there wasn't a good communication, or marketing around this program. So I said, you know, I'm going to dig in and start thinking about it kind of from the different perspectives, right, so one from a veterans perspective. Alright, so companies are incentivized, through a tax credit to hire veterans. Well, as a veteran, if I know about that, and I can do the legwork to get pre certified into this veteran target group, I can leverage that when I'm looking for jobs. I can go and sit down in an interview and go through all the reasons why they want to hire me. And at the end, when they say, Hey, is there anything else you'd like to share? Say? The here's the list of why you should hire me. And oh, by the way, should you decide are on the right candidate. I've already done the legwork to get pre certified for the veteran tax credit, that'll put money back in your p&l, if you decide to hire me, here's a letter that explains it. And so that is power, right, that gives this this program, the legs that it needs to incentivize as hiring companies. And you know, it's that doesn't guarantee me a job. But if I get down to the final, the three finalists, and they're looking at all three of us, and we're pretty close, and I come with a 90 $600 tax credit. And the other two don't, there's a financial incentive for them to pick me, right. And so I've talked if some that's like, well, I don't want them hire me because of money. I'm like, dude, if you got down to the finalist, and they hired hired you because of money, hey, well, you got to the finals, because of your chops. Yeah, the money may have put you over the edge, but you've got the job. Right. So there's really no reason as a veteran, we shouldn't take advantage of this program. And so I, you know, I was like, so I asked the DLL, I'm like, Look, so if I wanted how, as a veteran, how do I, how do I leverage this? I mean, I know, you tell me, I come with a tax credit when I leave the military, or if I've had a period of unemployment after I've been out, and that's where I re qualify for it again, how do I leverage that this is well, you can come to our office, and we'll bring your dd 214. And you're writing letter if you have one. And we will pre certify you into a group and we'll give you a packet that has forms in it that you can take to an employer. like, Well, okay, that's sounds good. But, you know, I'm 200 miles away from your local nearest office. Is there a place I can go online? Like, unfortunately, no, because it is a federal program, but every state manages around cysts or their own teams, we don't have one stop shop. And I'm like, okay, so I understand that, based on your earlier description that, you know, consultants can help companies do both sides of the paperwork at the same time, like so if I was a consultant, and I collected that information for the from the veterans, whether they're looking for a job, and I sent it to you, would you process it, and said, nobody's ever asked us that before. I'm like, Well, I'm asking. And they said, if you want to do it, we'll take it, we'll do the paperwork. And like I'm in. So started with that side of the platform, really, with, you know, the veteran in mind, helping them leverage the program. So they come to my site, register, do the same paperwork that they would do if they were in the office, at a workforce agency or work with an employer if they got you got access to the paperwork and get while they were getting hired. And then they submit their documentation through the system. I send it all the government they send a packet and But because government paperwork is not a leveraging tool, if a company doesn't know about it, and you can't articulate the program, right, by walk into an interview and say, Hey, I pre certify for text, right? here's, here's a packet with some forms in it, right? You're gonna go, what do we do what is right? Put them in the trash can, right? So we take it a step further, basically, you get to build your own profile on our site, and he profile, upload your resume, put your LinkedIn profile if you want to do an introduction video. And then you get a letter from us that markets you as a veteran to an employer that's really easy to use in an interview, that literally will walk them through all of the values of hiring and benefit. And oh, by the way, Gabe has done the legwork to get pre service certified for the veteran tax credit, should you decide to hire him to find out more about Kp, and the tax credit program, click on this link and put in his code. And so it drives that employer back to your profile, and it shows them how much tax credit you're worth. And then they can learn more about the program and decide if they want to take advantage of it or not. Yeah, I think that's just a lot of initiative too, right? Well, I mean, it's just like everything in life, I mean, you see a problem in front of you, you can either look at it and go, that sucks, and then turn your back, or you can figure out a way to fix it. And I mean, to me, my brothers and sisters are too important. I mean, this is an amazing program that they're not getting to leverage today, because they don't know about it and don't have the means to do it. So I wanted to make, you know, I just wanted to give back and, and put some time and energy into solving that problem. And so that's what I did.

But even for the person that's applying for the job, I think that that also displays a lot of initiative to go get pre certified for something like this. And it shows sort of what they could do for the company as well. As far as leaning forward in the foxhole, as they say, you know, I think it displays a little bit of character when they when they seek you out to get that pre certification done. And I was gonna ask next, like, What is? So I mean, what is your main passion behind behind this whole thing? Well, I

mean, it at the end of the day, it's to be here for our community. Yeah, right. I, we talked about that transition. And, and one of the biggest things for all of us, when we are making that transition from one site to the other, I don't know, gives us confidence that we're there, that's getting that first job. Right. And, you know, there's a lot of other things that can happen if we don't find gainful employment when we leave, right. And that's where a lot of financial problems can create stress in the home. And it can create other issues that can spiral out of control. So I mean, here is this amazing program, the government created, that if we just take advantage of it, know how to use it, that can shorten the amount of time it takes for us to find employment, you know, there's no reason for us not to take advantage of that. And I wanted, you know, I wanted that to be there for for my brothers and sisters. So that I mean, the end of the day, my mission is, is I want companies to get a tax credit for hiring a veteran for the first time, and then connect the dots, right? Hey, I got a great asset and hiring Kp and yeah, I got money back in my budget, I wasn't expecting maybe I should be hiring more veterans, right. And that's where it comes full circle. So all the veterans I talked to, I tell them, I'm like, Look, we have to take ownership of this program, because the Department of Labor can't do it on their own. But if we as a community say, Hey, you know, when I asked you, what do you What benefits do you get for being a veteran, everyone in the school will say, the top two, or maybe top three, I get a VA home loan, I get the GI Bill. And I can go to the VA for medical care if I want to. Right? We all know those. But we another one that we need to add to that list is I come with a tax credit to the first company who hires me. And then if I transition can recruiters in the future, there's a good chance I'll come with a tax credit again. Right? We should know that. And we should be leveraging it. So I tell that like, Look, dude, use this, the way you pay it forward is that when you get hired, you go back to your HR department say, Hey, remember, I come with a tax credit, make sure you guys file it and get it, whether they use VTC. Or they try to brave the waters on their own, that's up to them. But if they get the tax credit, and you do a good job, you know, for them as an employee, they're going to connect those dots. And that's when they start hiring more of your brothers and sisters and you surround yourself with your community, which makes work a lot more fun and a whole lot more effective because we know what we come with from a skills perspective that we get the job done no matter what.

Yeah, many times it's just about getting your foot in the door. That's the challenge in itself. So it sounds like this could be that little push that you get for that opportunity to display those skills. And I gotta say going back to what you talked about earlier, this government program. It sounds like you're the man that actually climbed the cliff, I should say, because it sounds like no one really fully understood it. And here, you went to the Department of Labor and ask them straight up, look, walk me through this, you sat down, you took the time to understand it better and saw a golden opportunity for the veteran community to to capitalize and possibly help a number of people level themselves up. So would you mind explaining to the folks listening how VTC makes the connection of veterans to business partners? And can you share some of the feedback that you've received from some of your clients so far?

Yeah, absolutely. So if we go back to the the earlier example, around veterans and how we help them leverage it, right number, we give them that letter that they can take with them, to employers. So that's one way is kind of that direct link between the veteran and employer and, and the handoff of, you know, hey, I come with a tax credit, should you decide on the right candidate, which sends them back to our site so that they can learn more about our program, learn more about the tax credit, learn more about that veteran, and hopefully, you know, connect the dots. And at the end of the day, we want that veteran to get hired. And if that if that particular employer wants to use the BTC services to handle the paperwork for them, then, you know, we'd love to be able to help them if they want to try to brave the waters on their own, they're welcome to do that. But at the end of the day, our primary mission is making sure that veteran gets hired. But for our employer clients, once an employer comes on with etc, they have the ability to actually post jobs to the veterans that are coming into our program that are getting pre certified, and that are out looking for work. So they can source candidates for open positions through our closed loop, job boards and and sourcing platform. And then the the veterans also have the ability to to look at the companies that are there and now apply to any openings that they may have. So connecting the dots within, within the program itself, and then externally, and we've got a lot of partnerships across the nation from both, you know, veteran focus for profits and veteran focused nonprofits, the VSOs, who's out there, you know, assisting our community on a day to day basis, and using those relationships as another way to help educate both the veterans that they work with, and then their employer partners that they work with, about this program so that more and more of them are leveraging program themselves. As far as feedback and surrender, you know, that's, that's really, the one intangible that I can take away from this is is just the, the thanks and admiration I get from the vets that I've worked with, you know, I don't have a, you know, a mechanism. It's installed in the platform where they, everybody tells me where they go to work. But I've had the fortunate experience to connect with a lot of the vets that use my system in LinkedIn, and I get messages all the time or phone calls, saying, hey, Craig, this has helped me so much. Thank you so much. And I say, happy to help. The only thing I ask is that you make sure that when you you know, when you go back to work tomorrow that they follow through and get the tax credit so that they can connect the dots and get excited about hiring more of our brothers and sisters.

Yeah, that that actually leads to more more gainful employment for more veterans, the more these businesses are educated on the actual program that sounds like it can be very complicated. So for you to actually get in there and figure out this whole process, which in turn helps out a number of military veterans is is an awesome situation. And I would just wanted to ask you, which which type of veterans qualify for this?

That is a very good question. So this is a program that will actually follow us throughout our entire working career. It starts with transition. So when we transition out of the military, we are automatically qualified for one of two tax credits, the first company who hires us, either 50 $600 or 90 $600. The only difference between the two is whether or not you come out with a disability rating of at least 10%. And we know based on statistics today, that 64% of the folks that are leaving the military today are coming out with at least 10%. I mean, if you're not getting 10% for tinnitus, right, you know, you need to at least put in for that because i don't i don't know 80 of athletes come out of the military without some level of hearing loss. Right, exactly. So that's those are the first two and then once we get out into the civilian workforce and start working to re qualify for the next company that we get to work For, we have to have a gap of employment. So the first level of tax credit is 20 $400. And that's what we've had at least four week gap of employment in the past 12 months. Once it bumps up to six months or longer, we've been up to those 50 690 $600 levels again. But so when you think about it, like if I stopped what I do today, and said, you know what I want to go to work for somebody else. By the time I start my you know, get my resume taken care of go through the exhaustive search, you know, on for jobs that I may be interested in applying to them, and networking, getting scheduled for interviews, and then companies going through their process, it's easily two to three months, before I could get my butt into a new seat. Now, for me, it probably wouldn't take that long, just because of, you know, my past relationships in corporate America. But for most people, unless you're getting recruited away, if you got laid off, or you just said, you know, what, the leadership in this company stinks. I don't want to work here anymore, it's gonna be chances are for longer than four weeks. So you're gonna come with a tax credit. And so that's valuable to know, too, because it's, you think about those periods in life where you, you changing careers or changing companies, every four weeks gap, at a minimum between those you can leverage this program?

Well, that's awesome. And so why is it so difficult for companies to connect the tax credit to the employment of our military veterans?

Well, there, I mean, there's two things. One is first knowing about the program, because there's a lack of education out there about this burger. And I will tell you, I have talked to big name companies that are known for hiring veterans, like if I told him, and I won't know, for confidentiality purposes, I won't name the companies. But if I said, you know, company, ABC, and you're like, oh, my god, they're not doing this. What are they crazy, and then they hire tons of veterans, right? Because they don't know about it, right. And that's just, you know, it's like all of those government loopholes for taxes are all those government programs that were written for somebody because their, you know, their lobby, the government to get something that is going to help their company that doesn't get pushed out to the reps. I'm not saying it's one of those types of programs. But there's just so many different things out there that we don't know about, just because the government is not a sales and marketing organizations, right now they create them, they put them out there on the Federal Register and put them out there on the websites. But you know, you're, you know, small business or medium sized business, you're focusing in on getting your product or service to market, you're not going to the Department of Labor's website and digging through all the different programs they have. And so that's one of the challenges. The other challenges is that once you find out about it, you know, I alluded to braving the waters on your own, because this is a federally funded program, but each state handles it their own way. If you've got employees in multiple states, you've got multiple states you got to deal with. And each of them have their own process. And so if you get the paperwork wrong, chances are, you're getting that that tax credit denied. Because there are teams that have, you know, maybe three to five people. And so you think about their processing tax credits for the entire state, and they get yours and I go, Hey, got copies in front of me and up, they've got to check a box, they don't have time to call up the company and say, Hey, I got copies paperwork in front of me, you know, you missed a box, what's it supposed to be, they just go denied, and they move on to the next one. And so that's a challenge. And that's, you know, I talked about my, the two companies that I knew that knew about it, and try it and gave up on it, it was because they were investing a lot of time, energy and resources into doing this. And then they weren't getting the ROI back because their credits kept getting get get denied. And so that's where we come in on the employer side, and make sure that that doesn't happen. You know, we essentially take over all the government paperwork for our employer, clients will become the IRS agent of record through this program for them. We work with each state on their behalf, we make sure that the credits are done the right way. I mean, our software that we give you, the US make sure that you can't make mistakes. And then, you know, in the odd event that I get a denial back from the state, I'm on the phone with them saying, Okay, what was missing? Why is this person get denied? and 95% of the time, it's usually somebody and said, hey, I've been out of work for at least four weeks, and they go in their tax weight system, and it's been three, they just didn't qualify, it wasn't because there was anything wrong, it was just because that particular person didn't qualify. So we literally are just, you know, taking the mystery and headache out of it for our employers. And then you know, at the end of the year, we add up all the tax credits that they've earned in inventory. We put it on the required Iris documentation and give it back to the company. So they can hand it off to their CPA and say, There's 50 grand in taxes, we don't want to pay this year, I can

see how you make the process so streamlined and, and seem so easy now, how you would be a huge important role in that whole process, I'd like to ask you what would be your top three takeaways for all our veterans out there to find employment?

Well, so you know, first and foremost is when it comes time to, to make the transition is to start building your network. Most jobs, they get filled, get filled through a referral. You know, companies play stuff out on the websites all the time, but you have somebody who's hand walking your resume into a hiring manager, or the HR manager, your chances of getting the interview is that much higher. So I'd say start that we'll use LinkedIn. And through that process, I'd say make sure that you put your ego and stick it in your desk drawer, because there's nothing else that will beat up your ego, more than that first job search. Because, you know, we come out, ready to take on the world and know our worth. And we expect that companies are going to jump over backwards to hire us. And the reality of it is it just doesn't work that way, when there are some companies that that do a really good job of sourcing and targeting veterans, but the vast majority of the companies in our country, don't, even the ones that say they're veteran friendly, they put that on their websites as a marketing tag, right, so that they could say they're veteran friendly, but they don't do anything different for veterans that they would do for any other candidate. So you know, when you're starting this network, number one, put your ego on the desk drawer, and then ask for help. There are 43,000 veterans service organizations in our country today, whose primary mission is to be there to help you. So there are lots of resources and actually through our site, look at our partnerships page, you go through those partners, you reach out to any number of them, any one of them, and they'll talk to you and help you. And that's just, you know, there's probably a list of 25 partners on here today. And that's just a beginning of the 43,000 that are out there. So don't be afraid to ask for help. In that process, number two would be go ahead and get your tax credit taken care of put that in your in your arsenal, and then on your resume at the top at least a line on there that says pre certified through veteran tax credit. So what that does is that, you know, as your recruiters are going through their applicant tracking systems, looking for who they want to call in for interviews, that that could stand out and actually stop them long enough for them to actually look at your resume. And potentially, hey, what's the stacks writing all about? Maybe we need to interview this person? Right? I can't guarantee that's gonna happen. But why not? Why did they put flashy things and marketing ads to stop our attention? That's a flashy thing that you could put there that could potentially help. And then the last thing I would say is, be aware and prepare yourself mentally, that it may happen really quickly for you. But it may not. And chances are, it's going to take longer than you expect. Knowing being armed with that information can help because it's really easy to get down yourself in that process. And start questioning your worth in corporate America, and in a society outside of the military. If things take longer than you expect them to take. So don't don't beat yourself up mentally. I deal with all ranks. Transitioning and I can tell you there. Oh 809 that takes six months to find a first job. So if it's don't take it personal, it's just it is what it is. And, you know, it's like climbing that hill, right? It's you look at it in the beginning, and it's daunting as hell. And you're like, there's no way I'm making it to the top. Just put your head down. Take it a day at a time. take it a step at a time and eventually get there.

Yeah, you know, I don't know how you feel about it. But I got out in 2007. And things weren't where they are right now. There was no LinkedIn. I think MySpace was still the number one social media heist. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, right. My space. So networking wasn't where it is right now. And I'm a little bit jealous, like, because I wish that I had those opportunities. I'm sure you feel the same way that that veterans today have to connect with folks online folks that literally live hundreds or 1000s of miles away, who can help elevate their success and level themselves up during that transition process. So in some of the things you talked about, check your You go, you know, your expectations. I mean, I had that I thought that when I got out as an O three, I was a captain who had a graduate degree, I thought that I was going to be no problem, like, I'm going to get a job. It's no big deal. And when it came down to it, I had one company that was willing to hire me. And that was it. Like, by the time I got out, I interviewed with all these companies, and I did my best to try to get the type of job that I wanted. And at the end of it all, when the dust settled, I only had one choice. So it was either going employed or take that job. And so I took that job, and I ended up being there for a year, I wasn't happy there. A lot of what you just mentioned right now, it's actually very, very good advice. And folks listening should definitely heed, like Craig is saying, because it's he's 100% on target. With that,

I give you one more resource, too. I wasn't the main author, but I contributed to this book, that's a good resource for anybody who's transitioning out and the title of it is how to speak civilian fluently, improve it with your CME credential, what a CME credential is, is a certified manager. But essentially, what this book does is it, it teaches you to speak the language of business. And when you read the book, you're going to realize that the vast majority of things that you did in the military translate into some billion business speak, the challenges that we face when we're transitioning, and we're going on these interviews is that we don't know their language. Yeah. Right. So I mentioned PnL. In the very beginning, that's the profit and loss statement for a business. That's, that's the backbone of what they operate off of, how much money are we spending, how much money are we earning, and every department has line items within that that profit and loss statement that they're responsible for, in knowing what a p&l is, or not knowing what what one is, could be the difference between whether or not you get a job, right. So you know, we have accountability and, and in the military, for things that we're responsible for, it's usually not the money side of it, but supplies and materials and things of that nature. And so, you know, in those types of things is, is crucial, I would recommend the book to everybody, I mean, find it on Amazon. So just put in that title. And you should be able to find it without any problems. And then at the end of it, it actually will teach you what you needed to know to take the certified manager tests. And we'll give you a credential that you can put next to your name. And so you know, one more thing to help you as you're out there in reviewing.

And I feel like today's transitioning veteran is more spoiled than I was when I got out because like you said earlier, you got handed templates for resumes and said, Good luck. I mean, I went through a headhunter and went through a bunch of went through a little bit of training, but nothing like what it is today or nothing that what, what's available today. And I really appreciate how our veteran community, I feel like a lot of people within our veteran community are really making an effort just like yourself, to reach back and help folks that are coming up behind you and are following your similar the similar path that you just came, I don't feel like in times past, we've done a very good job with that. But we finally are, and that's really important for veterans out service members, current service members out there and veterans, soon to be veterans that are going to be transitioning, you know, take advantage of the folks out here just like Craig who are willing to to help, you know, to add that, that extra push to get you that job that you're looking for. And so I just wanted to ask you to I understand that there might be some legislation in the progress to also cover military spouses. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the veterans tax credit is part of the greater program called the Work Opportunity Tax Credit today. So the veterans tax credit was the very first target group that was ever created, where they incentivize employers and then throughout the decades, they've added in some other target groups. Well, one of the the target groups that they're discussing right now, and actually have legislation that has bipartisan sponsorship up on the hill, is to include military spouses and as their own target group for a tax credit as part of this program. You know, unfortunately, with the way things are right now, in DC, I don't know how long it's going to take to get passed. I mean, I don't think I think they argue over, you know what time they're all going to lunch. They just can't seem to sign. But the good news is, is that both on both sides of the aisle, they have sponsors to this bill. And I know, you know, in the last administration, Mike Pence, his wife was pushing hard for it. My guess is that this administration will we'll see the same value and how military spouses because they are the largest unemployed group in our country today. I mean, as far as statistically, and we know why, right? Yeah. So there's good news that that could that's at least in process, we've already prepared internally, that as soon as that loss is signed, we that we're going to flip a switch and give the same front end services that we give to veterans to military spouses. So they'll be able to get the same things that as far as going in and getting a letter that they can use and all that stuff to be able to take with them on, on interviews. But today, a lot of times military spouses will classify under one of the other target groups, and they don't realize it, and that is the long term unemployed. So if you've been out of work for a consecutive 27 weeks, which is six months, you qualify for credit. So there's a good chance that if you've been jumping from post to post or face to base or a pending on what service, you're in, that and you have had that a gap of employment that you're going to come with a tax credit to?

Yeah, that's actually really, really great knowledge, though, how long has this been out? I'm just curious. This tax credit.

So the very first veteran tax credit was created post World War Two, wow. It's been around for a long time. And it's Jane's names. And, you know, they've added other things to the program throughout the decades. But it's been around for a long time. And and I don't know, because I'm not that all right, I wasn't in this space. Most World War Two, there may have been really good communication on the front side of this program. But you figure something that's 70 plus years old. Yeah, change the leadership, change, priority change focus, it just has kind of lost, whatever may have been out there in the future. So that's what we're solving to

very thankful for folks like you out there that are helping some of these businesses navigate that that red tape and navigating those waters to help us get, you know, more veterans employed. So if anyone out there listening is interested in contacting you or linking up with you, what are some of your social media platforms? And what is your website.

So I am on LinkedIn. So it's Greg Washburn, and you'll see VTC, and my name, always happy to connect with people on LinkedIn. The website is veteran tax credits. So plural veteran tax credits, calm, or you can Google it. And fortunately, we've done a good job. And we're number one on the Google page. So it won't take long to find this. And there are, you know, email links from on that page that you can send us an email or if you connect with me on LinkedIn, you can send me a personal message and happy to talk with anybody whether you're a veteran and have questions. Or if you're a business that's hiring veterans, or any of these other target groups, love to talk to you too, because if you're a business owner, and don't have a tax credit solution in place, and you're already hiring, these people may not even know it, you're literally walking away from money every year and sending money to the fireplace that we call the IRS, when you could be putting it in into programs to hire veterans or help your companies grow.

Yeah, most definitely, you know, I'll include in the show notes, your your contact information for LinkedIn and your website. And also, I'll put the book in there as well, in the show notes, so anyone listening out there, check out the show notes, if you want to find those links. And, Craig, before we finish everything up, is there anything that you'd like to tell everyone out there?

Well, I tell you, you know, obviously, we're coming to one of our two times a year when, when the nation remembers us, and that's Memorial days. Number one, I want to thank all the vets and their families, for everything that they've sacrifice, and really appreciate you're serving our country, you are the best of the best. And I'm so proud to call you my brothers and sisters. So I mean, that's the primary thing is just, I'm thankful for all of you in this community. And if there's anything I can do to help anybody, please let me know.

Yeah, I certainly love my exclusive military community, man, we're very small group. But when we bond together and utilize those skills that we learned, we're probably the strongest group out there. So

yeah, it goes on to Britta my my favorite saying, which is, we all have our own mountains to climb, but together, we'll move mountains.

Yes, exactly. Yes, sir. Craig, I really appreciate your time today. Thank you for sharing the information. And I'm looking forward to hearing more from BTC and more from yourself as well. So thank you for your time.

Hey, you're very welcome. And thanks for having me.

All right, folks listening out there. This is KP was Craig Washburn from BTC and we're out