Military Service to Executive Protection: GDBA Director of Recruitment & Veteran Outreach Nick DuChene Interview

KP: 0:29

This episode is brought to you by Act Now Education, go to www.actnoweducation.com for a free, comprehensive, educational resources and opportunities for active duty, veterans, military spouses and children.

Nick DuChene: 0:49

You know, I'm willing to bet that 99% of the veterans that are out there, has a story about "Man, if I only would have listened to my intuition on this. Something was telling me not to do it. "Don't go through that door. Don't do this. Don't do that." You know, and they face the repercussions of it. And so it's, I don't know what else to say about intuition. It's there. It's it's a great thing to have, provided, you listen to it, and you act upon it.

KP: 1:19

Thank you for joining us today, folks. We have a veteran who now serves as a director of recruitment and veteran outreach for an executive company that employs over 60% military veterans who are responsible for the protection of several 1000 clients, including over 90 of the world's most prominent families and at risk individuals. On the show today, we have retired Army First Sergeant Nick DuChene from Gavin de Becker and Associates based out of Los Angeles, California. What's most interesting about Nick is his military career. He once lead a high risk reconnaissance and security mission, which included a raid in Iraq that liberated eight hostages. We'll dive into his military career as well as his fascinating current position with Gavin de Becker and Associates. Nick, I want to thank you for joining us today.

Nick DuChene: 2:04

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

KP: 2:06

So let's get things started. And let's learn a little bit more about you and who you are. Nick, where are you from? And what was your upbringing like?

Nick DuChene: 2:13

Yeah, so I was from, I am from, born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona. And so grew up, both my parents worked. They had a hard time, I was say, hard time a challenging time, raising twin boys. And so I have a twin as well. And so someone to hang out with, which was really cool, who looked like me. And we kind of shared the same interest. So you know, a lot of our time was spent outside as any kid during that day, or during that timeframe. Excuse me. We didn't have computers, we didn't have internet. And so you were kind of forced to be outside. And you really only spent time inside when you were grounded. And so, you know, my family, we grew up doing a lot of vacation. So a lot of times at Disneyland. I had an uncle who had a had a boat. So we did a lot of boating, waterskiing, and so on. And then we had dirt bikes. So my dad and my uncle would take us out there, do a little bit of dirt bike riding and so on. So it was, it was fun. That was it was challenging. I wouldn't say challening. It was fun as a kid during that timeframe.

KP: 3:21

Yeah, sounds like your brother and you were both sort of in competition, but in a good sense of helping each other level yourselves up, I guess.

Nick DuChene: 3:30

Oh, yes.

KP: 3:30

Yeah. And then what point did you decide to serve in the United States Army? And why did you do that?

Nick DuChene: 3:37

So I decided to join the army when I was in high school, and I'd probably say was my sophomore year. And so I really enjoyed or wanted to do something, obviously, outside, something adventurous. And then something that had a sense of purpose. I knew that what I didn't want to do was sit behind a desk. And so with that in mind, I started looking at the military. And actually, what drew me to the military during that timeframe was movies. And so you had 'Heartbreak Rage' came out, you had 'Top Gun,' which was probably huge for the Navy recruiters, were all happy with that one. And so they kind of like glorified the military, if you will. And I was just like, wow, this is a, this is something that I want to do. And so when I turned 17, my, my junior year, I started looking at all the different services. And so I gave, you know, everyone kind of an equal shot of, what it is that they had to offer. And then Marines and Army were the two. My brother joined the Marines. And so when I went in there, and I spoke with the Marine recruiter, all great, and the Marines are great, nothing to take away from them at all. But the only thing they had to sell was being a Marine. And that was it. No guaranteed jobs. No nothing. You're just at the end of the day, you're you're a Marine, and I get that. And for some, it works for them. Along with, what'd they have in there? The the pull up bar, so the first time you go in there, you got to do pull ups before you talk to them and it was crazy, but either way. And then finally I spoke with an Army recruiter. So with that, he he showed me some videos. And I think that's really what sold me as being a cavalry scout. And he gave me a guaranteed job and so as long as I met the requirements, I passed everything, the Army would guarantee me that specific job. And so I found that very interesting. And then with that, they also, you know, they hype you up when you're down in maps. You know, they call you like "soldier" or "hero," and you feel really good about yourself. And so then the, I also qualified for airborne and I was like, "Yeah, I want to go airborne!" You know, hey, I'm scared of heights, you know, right. But I'm not thinking about that at the time. I'm just thinking like, "Man, I'm gonna be airborne, that's awesome." You know, qualified for some more college money, the Montgomery GI bill on top of all of that. It was really good. So I joined at 17. I remember the recruiter coming to my house, and my parents you know, signing the paperwork and all of that. They were fine with it. You know, they, I think felt that the military was, you know, something that they would be proud to have their, you know, their sons do. So I did that. And then I remember the rest of my junior and senior year, my friends, were still trying to figure out what it is they wanted to do. You know, they're trying to figure out "Am I going to go into workforce? Am I going to go, am I gonna go to college?" Meanwhile, I was like, I already knew I was gonna do. And so when it came to career days, I really didn't pay attention to it. It had no meaning to me whatsoever when people were mentioning, "Hey, you need a resume." ...You don't need one for the military. You know, you just need to score on the ASVAB test, and you're good to go. So it was great. I remember I left home. Let's see, July 4, 1991. Recruiter came to my house, picked me up, drove me to the airport, got on the plane, and then I arrived at Fort Knox, Kentucky. And so I spent 16 weeks there, going through OSUT, one station unit training. It's basic and AIT all condensed into one. I finished that up. Great experience. I loved it. Did it during the dead of Summer, which was miserable in Kentucky. And then from there, I went straight to airborne school. So again, it just solidified the fact that I was still scared of heights. But I did it anyway. So it was fun. It was, I spent four weeks, I spent a zero week so I had to show up there and they were filled. And so I spent a week doing like, what's it called...?

KP: 7:55

Details?

Nick DuChene: 7:56

You got it. Not quite packing chutes, but helping to load chutes, anything that a private does, you know, this was the guy that was doing it. I remember I turned 18 there. And I was on CQ. And so they were like "How do you like it here?" I was like "It's great. It's terrific!" But, and then after that, I went to, once I graduated jump school, went to Fort Benning, Georgia. Shocker. I got there and I was like, "We don't jump out of airplanes here?" And so I just felt that it was weird that the Army had sent me to a location where I was actually on Bradley's and so I was at a heavy unit. And so it took a little bit of you know, of learning to get used to but you know, I did that. And it wasn't until, wanna say 15 years later, when I got to the 82nd. And so 15 years, definitely, I forgot everything about airborne school.

KP: 8:46

Wow.

Nick DuChene: 8:47

Oh, it was a, I remember how to go to BAR, which is basic airborne refresher. I was a platoon sergeant at the time there. I had to get lessons, I had to learn, like all over again. Someone had to come in and actually teach me how to do it before I went in front of these other professionals to make sure that I could rig my rock and I knew what a PLF was, and how to do all that stuff. And so it was a, wouldn't say it was a steep learning curve, but it was learning all over again. And so yeah, I know it was a long answer. But yeah.

KP: 9:16

No, it sounds like quite an intriguing military career. And I can identify with what you're saying with being afraid of heights, because I'm also afraid of heights. But I signed up for air assault when I was at Schofield in Hawaii. And if you're afraid of heights, you shouldn't put a rope on you and walk backwards down the side of a building. So I understand what you're saying with that. Airborne, I just feel like you plug your nose and just jump out and with your eyes closed. So that's something I wish I would have tackled as well was airborne school.

Nick DuChene: 9:49

Yes exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's just having the confidence in your equipment, you know. Same thing. I never did air assault only because again, scared of heights. I'm not gonna volunteer for any of that stuff, not unless they tell me that I have to do it. But just having the faith that you know, one, that you're doing the right thing, that rope is strong enough to hold you going down. And then for me you know that that parachute is going to open up and knowing, you know, how to use my reserve if need be.

KP: 10:17

You know what, I think that underlines. That underlines your natural, your natural challenging of your fears. I mean even signing up for the military and leaving home at 17 years old is no easy task in itself. Most people don't even leave home until their mid 20s or so. So you guys went to the, you and your brother went into the deep end and just signed up for something that you really had no idea what you were doing and, and facing your fear, I guess of growing up leaving home. But then also, you signed up for airborne school on top of that, with your fear of knowing that, that heights wasn't one of your favorite things. And that says a lot about your character naturally. And I wanted to ask you, would you mind describing a time to us, when you were forced to take a steep learning curve in leadership? And what was your outcome on that?

Nick DuChene: 11:02

Yeah. I'll give you two examples. So I think the the first one, I would say that every NCO has this experience, and that is that transition from enlisted to NCO. And so for me, you know, I had a lot of, a lot of friends. And then when you make the NCO rank, Corporal, or Sergeant, you know, now all of a sudden, your decision making factor is all based on the mission and success of that mission. And there are times and I remember, I was in Fort Irwin, back in the mid 90s. And I had to put my buddies on KP, you know. I'm sure a lot of people don't know what what KP is, back then, but yeah, they were doing dishes. They were going out there to the mess and helping out and you feel bad about it. But it's, it's something that has to be done. And so, you know, the reason why you do it is, is because of the mission. And so there are certain things that, that you do. Second thing I would say would be that transition from military leadership, which is direct, it's in your face, it's strong, I love it, to civilian leadership. And now is much different. So now you're dealing with a kinder, gentler, softer individual who has had no leadership experience, has never been to any formal schooling, other than what they see on TV, or maybe a class or two. But you have to understand that those civilians, you need them to work the next day. So you can't go in there all strong and you know, and be very directive. You have to, you have to utilize more of a participative style of leadership, if you will. You know, they need to gain buy in to what it is that the intent of what the mission is, compared to, you know, the military side. You don't like what I'm saying, you're still gonna show up the next day. I mean, you have, feelings get hurt, that's what I love about the military. Feelings get hurt all the time, but you get over it, you know. There is no hard feelings, or people don't come back the next day saying, "Oh, that guy's in a-hole or whatever." No, that's just the way that it is. And I think that's why the military works so well. But in the civilian side, wooh, you yell at somebody, you know, or tell them what to do, you're standing in front of HR after that, you know, or potentially losing your job. So you have to be very, the learning curve on the civilian side is definitely way different, way different. But let me let me add on to that. The things that are the same for both military and civilian, is the purpose, direction, and motivation. So as long as you're providing that you could get it, it's just how you apply it.

KP: 13:59

Right. And I was on clubhouse the other day. And I found it really interesting when, there was a sergeant major on there that was talking. And he's into real estate as part of one of his civilian, I guess, jobs now. He does several different things, but one of them is real estate, and he trains real estate agents. And what I found quite interesting was how he spoke about, a lot of the tactics that he used in recruiting, those soft skills that he used in recruiting are the same type of skills that he uses today on the civilian side, to train real estate agents. And that's not, that's something that I just didn't think about, that those soft skills, I guess is kind of what you're talking about, is also being used on the civilian side to train people who've never been in the military. And I find that quite fascinating. And many times when you watch movies and whatnot, you see those hard skills in the military. And I, I agree, I love that side of the military where nothing is really personal. It's all about the mission. And it's all about having care and passion about the mission and your people. All the other stuff, no matter what's said during that point, is not personal to anyone. But on the civilian side, people take it personal. And so I understand what you're saying that that is a huge challenge in itself. Now, how did the military help you construct a better understanding of team building that you still use today with your current position?

Nick DuChene: 15:29

So the military from day one, instills team building. So you, when you get to basic training, you're not an individual. It doesn't matter if you go to whatever branch that it is, you're with a group of people, you're with a platoon. And so your success and accomplishments are based off of that platoon. And so it's not based off that, that individual. It's so it's, team building is not based on MOS, it's not based on rank, it's not based on any of that. And so it's, it's based about, you know, obviously working together and then trying to figure out, how do you build that team. In the military, you know, it's easy for certain things, I'll give you an example, as you know, knowing, "You're only as strong as your weakest link" is, you know, what they say. So you take a road march, for example, you know, it's easier to build a team by taking your weakest link, and putting that individual at the front of the formation, you know, when you're walking. It's easier to motivate him or her, to push harder to accomplish it, you know, and everyone's cheering them on, or whatever it is. Compared to now you take that person, and they're at the back of the formation. And now your whole team building and leadership thing is now it's, it's gone. So now you're telling a person, "Hey, hurry up, catch up, you're slowing us down!" You know, and so you have to look at it from that point, as well. So not only are you using leadership there by putting them up front, but you're also building a team that's there. And that individual feels more part of that team when he or she is upfront, compared to in the back. So there is that inclusion that's in there. You know, you have to look at, and the military does it as well, too, when it comes to team building is your METL task, your mission essential task list. At a level, you know, every individual or every squad, company, whatever has a list of things that need to be accomplished, that supports the higher mission. And when you complete yours, as a team, you know, you feel motivated about it. You're just like, "Wow, okay, we did this." And sometimes you fail, but you fail as a team, you don't fail as an individual, which is good. Because I'd say that failure probably is worse if you just did it by yourself, compared to if you did it as a team, because you still have a support group that's there that understands why you failed, how you can improve to get better. Compared to you trying to rationalize it up by yourself. And then team building, you know, it drives competition. It's what I love about it, drives competition, it makes people want to do better. If you ever noticed, like, back in the days when we when we do PT, I got it, motivation is there, you're doing it, individuals are they're performing, they're doing what they have to do. Push Ups sit ups, two mile run is typically what what the army does, you know, you do it every day. But all of a sudden, now you take a day, and you add a sporting event that's in there, you know. Now all of a sudden, you have individuals who are pushing harder, because, you know, they want to win. You know, they want to have success at the end of the day. And so they're gonna, you know, strive a lot harder than push ups, sit ups, two mile run, you know. So yeah, that's kind of like, how it's worked. And I use that same thing within the civilian side, is building that team. And, you know, getting individuals to want to succeed, have the buy in. And seeing that there is, you know, winning at, whatever that is, whatever your career field is, there's always a win on something, you know. For me, it's, it's recruiting, you know, it's like, "Hey, we have a large Academy", that's a win, everyone did their part to achieve a higher mission.

KP: 19:01

Right. Yeah, no, that's absolutely amazing. It shows a lot of years of experience and leadership that you have under your belt. And before we jump into talking specifically about your current position, and Gavin de Becker and Associates. I want to know, are you okay with talking about the raid that I mentioned at the beginning of the show? A little, a little bit about, not in great detail, but...

Nick DuChene: 19:25

Yeah, yeah, I could go into into some detail.

KP: 19:27

Yeah. Would you mind just describing like, what happened during that raid? And what was the outcome?

Nick DuChene: 19:33

Yeah, so we were on a different mission set, when we were in Iraq. And so we weren't a land owning company. We,we, I'll try to explain this. So basically, air assult it, we took a helicopter in everywhere we went. And our mission, we had a target package of everything that we were supposed to do. Find individuals, capture them, and then we'd pull out, and then once we'd pull out, then we had other, you know, groups that were there ODA or whatever, they'd wait for them to get on the phone, talk. And then they would go back in and capture individuals. So that particular one, we were in, in the breadbasket area. So I remember landing. We were on a CH47. And as soon as we landed, you could just hear rounds going off. So there we go. So we have a whole battalion of individuals going into one area, and we were there for one purpose and one purpose only, find people and get them. We had to you know. And so with that, I remember thinking to myself, "Man, this bird's got to get up, it's got to get up. I don't want to be around an airplane, I don't want to be around, you know, helicopter when rounds start coming in. So the last thing I want." You know, bird takes off and immediately again, rounds start coming in. And our commanding officer actually, him and his RTO, actually plucked a guy out of a, out of a ditch who was next to them. So they took a knee, guy was there, the RTO was this huge guy. And he just reached down, pull this guy up, and they started, you know, asking him questions. And you know find out that, hey, you know,this area, they're known for taking middle-aged males MAMS, and then they would try to bargain with individuals to pay money, ransom for them. So that night, I remember we were going, my platoon, we split into two. So my Lieutenant took half the group, he was up top on the road, checking out some areas. And for me, I had a Bravo section, and we went down towards, moving towards the Tigris. So as we start to get down, I noticed that there's a little bit of smoke coming out of a little fire that someone had. So I knew that individuals had been in there. And so we immediately pull security on that area. And as I start to move forward, I noticed there's a 50 gallon drum that's sitting at the bottom, a little shelf that kind of goes down. And I was like, wow, this is that's weird, that's probably not should be here. And so you get the red lens out, you're looking at it, you know, making sure there's no wires or anything like that. And so we cleared it, we move it out of there. And as soon as I lift up the barrel, and I hand it off to one of my sections sergs, I see a door. And I'm just in awe. And I'm like "A door, like why would a door be here?" And so there was a very tiny hole in that door. And so I remember, I peeked my eye through there. And there was another eye looking back at me. And so naturally, you know, I immediately start yelling, you know, "Get back, I'll shoot, get back, get back." And then everyone else who's above us, they're actually standing on what they had dug into the ground. And so that, the the ground up top is actually the roof. So it's kind of like a bunker. And so I'm trying to get my interpreter to come up there. So I can, you know, find out some information on who these individuals are. And then they tell us that they had been captured for about 45 days. And they were being ransomed in order for families to pay, you know, the, the insurgents in that area. And so it took a little time of us talking and we didn't, we didn't breach the door right away. We had to go over a lot of you know, "Hey, this is what's going to happen, you know, make sure that when we come in, you know, hands are up, we can see them." And so we finally got through the door, and we pulled them out. And you know, some of these individuals were, you could tell, were dehydrated. They had a hard time moving. And so we got them out. And we took them to a house that we had commandeered, if you will, and that was kind of our, our AO that we worked out of. And then eventually they were flown out of the area. And then another group of individuals, you know, took them and you know, made sure that you know, asked them questions, fed them obviously and make sure they were good to go. But yeah, it was very, very interesting.

KP: 24:11

Wow, that's quite amazing, man, that boots on the ground and here you were, going into the unknown, into a bunker. And I don't, I don't know what I would do if I saw an eye looking back at me. First thing is "Damn." Like that's, I haven't been to Iraq. I know that when you leave the wire, it's just 300 you know, 360 all around, you just don't know what's gonna happen when. And when things do kick off, it's like a sucker punch. You never expect, it never happens, it never happens when you expect it to happen. At least that's been from my experience.

Nick DuChene: 24:50

Exactly. You know, at the end of the day, you know, the enemy gets a vote too. So they're participating in that battle. They also get to decide, you know, when and where, you know, they want to kick off, you know, their ambush or their firefight or whatever. So it's just being one, you know, mentally strong, you know, doing all the training, which the military gives you. And then just having that intestinal fortitude to know that "Hey, you know what, when they fight, I'm gonna fight back, except for my fight is going to be 10 times worse than what they're giving out." So.

KP: 25:18

Wow. Yeah, I remember the first IED I ever ran over, it was, the first words out of my mouth was "What was that?" And I knew what it was. It was just, it just caught me off guard. I was like, my mind was going 1000 miles a minute. And yeah, that's, you kind of took me back there for a minute when you're telling me, telling me your story in itself. And I want to jump over to your transition out of the military. That happened in 2011. Can you explain to us what that was like?

Nick DuChene: 25:48

Yeah, it was, quite frankly, nerve wracking. And so when you, when you spend 20 years in organization, that's your mindset, is that organization. Everything, you you know, your your verbiage, your attire. You know, I remember, you know, looking at myself when I was getting ready to retire, and I was like, "What clothes do I have here?" You know, got a lot of unit t-shirts and shorts. You know, that's, that's who I am. And so it was, I had to do a lot of thinking, before I got out. With the military, one good thing is, everything is set up for you. And so that's from A to Z. So you're never by yourself. The military guides you, no matter what school it is, the transition from one installation to the next installation, it's there. You have someone to catch and guide you through the steps. On the civilian world, you have yourself. Like that is it. So you have to have that motivation and drive to say, "Hey, okay, I need to get this done, no one is going to do and except for me." So now, quite literally, your success is based on yourself. And so I started looking at, you know, different jobs that were out there. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I looked at, I remember, I was going to do Junior ROTC. And so I applied for that. I did an interview with a, with Lieutenant Colonel. And everything was was great with that. So that was an option. I looked at contracting. And so that was pretty easy as well, signed up for you know, get some information, you know had a guy reach out to me. Got it, you know, I can go that route. And then my brother, who works for Gavin de Becker, he's a, at the time was a regional manager. And so he said, "Hey, you know, why don't you consider us?" And so I did, you know, a little looking into it, trying to figure out what I wanted to do, if that's what I wanted. I never really looked at security, like I was just like, "okay" you know. But when I saw it, it gave me that, you know, I wasn't behind a desk all the time. There was times, obviously, when you're, where you're behind a desk. But it gave me the opportunity to, to be outside, and I really wanted that still in my life, and not be, you know, again, behind a desk. And then when I looked at it, I noticed that there was a lot of veterans who were in the organization. And so the fact of being with like-minded individuals also drew me to that as well. And so it was people that I could relate to, who had the same common interests, who did the same common things. Military, not necessarily MOS, but the discipline and all that was was still there. And so I decided to, to go that route, you know. And then the biggest thing was checking your ego at the door when you start at that organization. You know, 20 years as a first Serg, you know, I had a staff, I had people who, who did things for me. When I got to Gavin de Becker, like it was me, like, I had to remember I got to pull up Word. "How do I do this again? You know, what am I writing out here?" And so it's just understanding that, you know, what I did in the past is the past. It's where I am now and who I am now. And I'll take those leadership traits and what made me successful in the past, and I'm going to apply those to this position, and continue to excel. So yeah, long story I know, but transition out is, it's difficult.

KP: 29:28

Yeah, it sounds like camaraderie, and the reciprocity of what Gavin de Becker and Associates was offering was something that was a big factor for you. So were there any other important factors that you were considering while transitioning?

Nick DuChene: 29:41

Ah, yeah, a lot of factors, you know, when it comes to region, where I want to be at, you know, what's going to be best for my family, and schooling. And so you have to look at all of those as well. Housing market, cost of living in certain areas, you know, obviously, I'm in California, California's cost of living is extremely high. You know, anything you buy here is more expensive. It's like a competition than any other state, we got gas, we charge more than any other state, you know, you want a gallon of milk, we charge more than any other state. And so it's, it's there. So it's, you know, I would tell individuals, you have to be proactive when you get out. There are a lot of resources that are out there that can kind of help you with your transition. And don't pay for stuff. That's the biggest thing. There's so many companies that are out there that are all about, "What can I get from that veteran who's transitioning out right now? He'll pay me and I'll do his resume." Okay, well, you know what, I don't want to sit here and plug anyone but Hiring Heroes, they'll do your resume for free, you know, they'll do coaching for you for free. So there's so much stuff that's out there, you just have to be smart and invest in yourself and invest in the time to look for these organizations.

KP: 31:01

Yeah, no. Amen to that. And that's one of the things that I like to do with my podcasts and why I'm teamed up with Act Now Education is because we focus on those free educational resources that are available to our military community. And there's so many options out there, it's important for, for me and the entire Act Now Team to get the message out there that, "Hey, you don't have to pay for this stuff. There's other people out there that are doing this, that will help you out that have equal quality." And I want to pivot to talk about Gavin de Becker and Associates now. They currently employ over 60% military veterans. So can you tell us what's one of the biggest hurdles facing veterans when making the transition into the civilian side? And is there anything specific to executive protection, during that transition?

Nick DuChene: 31:47

The the biggest hurdles facing veterans, you know, during the transition is really, is they need to be proactive. I think we touched on that a little bit earlier, is, you know, looking for those, those organizations, they want to be a part of, and doing that early on in your transition. So not waiting until you know, you're a month out and be like, "Oh, okay, what do I want to do?" You should really be looking like a year out. And this way, as you get closer, you have the opportunity to apply to these organizations, you know. Get hired prior to getting out, which relieves stress on you, relieves stress on your your family, you know, your wife, knowing that you already have a job when you get out. And then also when it comes to your, setting up your transportation, you know, you already know where all your household goods are going to go to. And so that's the biggest hurdle, being proactive. The military is not going to be there, when you get out. When you, your last day, when you sign out, like that's it. They don't care about you anymore. You're just going to head out the base, out that front gate and you're, you're done. That's it. No one else is gonna check on you or anything. So I would say that is the biggest hurdle. I would encourage people to use your resources. You know, get on LinkedIn. There are certain things that are there and certain companies, again, like we'll do the resumes for you. There's a, there's a company out here in California, can't remember the name of them. But they they give you a free suit, to veterans who are applying for jobs, you know, because they want to make sure that you're, you're good to go. And so they also do, coach you for interviews. I encourage them to find out all these organizations that are free and utilize them to help build your network, if you will, when you get out. And then as for the you know, the specifics for who we look for, we're like a melting pot. We take everyone. And what I mean by that, military wise, there's certain things that you have in there, some of these, like intangibles or whatever. I can't teach you to put an iron to your clothes, you know, but the military does. You know, I can't teach you to show up on time, the military does you know. So the leadership stuff that's there, it's, that's what we're looking for. So you don't have to have a background in it by any means. But being a veteran, you know, it definitely sets you apart from others.

KP: 34:04

Right. It makes a lot of sense. And you know, at the, at the end of the day, people in service, especially the young adults in service, it's important to impress upon them to simply invest in yourself. Take advantage of the free education. Like while you're on base, go to the Education Center. I can't tell you how many times when I was a platoon leader, I would walk up to, you know, people in my formation and say, "Hey, what would you do Friday night? Did you go out drinking? Or did you go sign up for some classes at the Education Center?" And, you know, more times than not, they're like, "No, no, I hung out. Played you know, video games." And I would constantly, every week, get on them like, "Hey, go to, sign up for something, anything, just sign up for something and get this done because you've got four years, you know, in the military." "Well, I plan on staying 20." Well, things happen. You don't know. You might, you know, get medicaled out. You always got to invest in yourself, because you never know when life's gonna throw that curveball.

Nick DuChene: 35:00

Absolutely. I mean, even...you bring up a good point about, you know, investing in yourself, for that education. It's, you know, individuals, they see education as "Ugh, I don't want to do this." Well fine, don't do it, go do a CLEP. You know, go and knock out a CLEP test really quick and get some credits that way. It's quicker as long as you're knowledgeable on the subject and you think that you can pass the test. Go do that.

KP: 35:21

Exactly. Find better use of your time, you know. I don't want to be on CQ duty and do a walk through and have to write you up. I'd rather see you in there studying or doing something else, you know. That was one of my one of my big things when I was active duty. I've watched several interviews with Gavin de Becker over the years, and I read his book, 'The Gift of Fear,' which discusses intuition. I noticed when I talk with combat veterans about traumatic events, many of the concepts can be applied to the situations that they were a part of. What are your thoughts on the concepts taught to combat veterans and their experiences?

Nick DuChene: 35:58

So, first thing I would say is, if you haven't read the book, 'The Gift of Fear', go read it. It's not a plug, I don't get any money out of it or anything like that. But it is, it's just an amazing book, about your intuition. You know, I made my wife read it, I made my daughter read it. You know, I encourage people to have their family members read it, it's their. You know, intuition is nothing more than, you know, a little voice inside you. And you have two options. You can either feed, you know, that voice, and you can survive, or you can starve it, and you can face replications for, repercussions for it, you know. Your intuition, it's not, it doesn't matter, you know, how rich or poor you are, doesn't matter what country you're from, everyone has it. It's all about listening to that little voice that's inside you. And then acting upon what it says, you know. And that book is just, it illustrates so many different scenarios that are in there, and you're just like, "Wow, okay, I get that. I've felt that before." You know, I've been in a situation where, don't go through that alley at night. It's not good. It's not good. Oh, well, it's a quicker way to get home. Don't do it, you know. And so you have to make that decision. I think, as veterans, they have it as well. You know, I'm willing to bet that 99% of the veterans that are out there, has a story about "Man, if I only would have listened to my intuition on this. Something was telling me not to do it. "Don't go through that door. Don't do this. Don't do that." You know, and they face the repercussions of it. And so it's, I don't know what else to say about intuition. It's there. It's it's a great thing to have, provided, you listen to it, and you act upon it.

KP: 37:36

Yeah, I kind of see it as one of those things where your body is naturally, equating the totality of the circumstance, taking everything into account of what you've experienced. And if you've been there before, into how it's different right now and warning you to "Hey, be either highly vigilant or don't do that." And when I read that book, and I was going back and thinking of the times where I was in those situations where things went bad, and I was starting, think about things were darker than normal, things were more like way more quiet than usual. We didn't have the support that we needed at the time. Like things started adding up. And my intuition was already telling me "Hey, like, something's not right here." But we just kept going. And then sure enough, like we would hit a, an ambush, or we'd hit an IED or something would happen. And that book in itself, helped summarize, I guess, how you could simply avoid some of those situations or be better prepared for the situations when things do go bad. So many civilian businesses struggle with hiring veterans, how does Gavin de Becker and Associates overcome this challenge of the translation of skills from veteran to civilian?

Nick DuChene: 38:53

Every organization should have some sort of a veteran recruiter that's there. And when I say a veteran recruiter, you know someone who has probably been in the military more than four years, who has a, you know, a better understanding of how it works, and so on. The different leader levels, if you will, within there. And then someone who, for example, for me, you know, I also did recruiting. I did recruiting for four years. And so I understand the concepts of recruiting and how to talk to individuals. And the biggest thing is, I can relate to those individuals who are getting out, because those challenges they're facing, I've already faced, and I could share with them, you know, what I learned of what to do and what not to do. And so I would say that organizations need to have that. Other organizations, they need to, they need to get into bases. And so I see that as the the biggest struggle is that there are a lot of great organizations that are out there, but they're not in the bases unless it's a job fair or something like that. I know for me every Thursday, for the most part minus today, I'm out at Twentynine Palms. And so I get to speak to Marines at the TRS or Transition Readiness Service briefs. And so I talk to them, and they get to see who I am. And so getting out there and doing different events, whether it's, you know, you're volunteering your time, or whatever it is. Individuals need to get out there to military bases so they know who you are, and so on. I think that's the biggest struggle there. And the thing is like they need to partner with organizations, other veterans organizations. I don't think that a lot of companies realize that there's, I want to say over, little over 200,000 veterans that get out, service members, excuse me that transition out. 200,000 per year, that's a huge pool of candidates that are looking for jobs, for the most part, looking for jobs, you know. Even if you take half of those that say, I'm just gonna go to college, and the other half are going to go to the, you know, into the workforce. So over 100,000 people that are going into there. And so it's just you got to talk to them early, you know, establish that relationship early. Not once they get out, not once they're home, and then they're like, "Oh, okay, well, now I'm in Kansas, and you're offering me this job, it's in California. And now I gotta move all my stuff again. And now I got to figure out stuff like that." And so that's the big one. Partnering with other organizations, I know that we partner with Wounded Warrior Project, we partner with Work for Warriors here in California. I mean, these are organizations that are dedicated to finding veterans jobs. And so why not partner with an organization who's doing the work for you? Who constantly feeds you all these individuals who are interested in a career with you. So I don't know that they do that. I don't know. I've only had two jobs in my life. One, the army and the second one is here at Gavin going on 10 years. So these are the things that you know, that I do know. You know, why would you put a lot of time, effort, energy into something that doesn't work when you can use veteran organizations to help you. You know. The other thing is like when veterans are getting out, they need to have a little bit of self confidence in themselves, and not think about, is this job going to be what I'm looking for, or whatever. I think they do kind of struggle with that one. And I think that struggle comes with trying to relate their MOS into what the civilian job is. And I know that I had a hard time as well. It's it's difficult, especially if you're, if you're an infantry man, what do you do? I shoot guns, that's what, I'm really good at guns, you know, but I'm looking at, you know, doing something else that doesn't involve guns. You got to transit, you got to figure out how you do that. And they have to look at the leadership, the classes that they learned in there. And that, you know, that makes them, you know, obviously more marketable to organizations, but having a veteran recruiter knows that already. And so it makes it easier for them, you know, and you can kind of guide them when they fill out the resume, "Hey, put this on here, and you'll be fine. Put that on there, and you'll be fine." So it's not for us, we're not specific to MOS, were others, you know, they may be specific towards, you know, individuals got a communications, who did that for, you know, eight years in the military, who's got all this, you know, certifications and so on, who can come over and fill that job for them.

KP: 43:16

Yeah. So just, before I close out the podcast, I just wanted to ask you this, because this is probably something that many veterans out there are feeling or might speak to, what do you feel like would be a good stepping off point, for those who feel lost amongst all their options, and paths during their transition out of the military?

Nick DuChene: 43:39

I would say they're stepping off point would be, First off, they should have a mentor. You know, they should always have someone who they can go to and seek that guidance. Because my guidance and what I say today, may not be for everybody. But you know, the stepping off point would definitely be a mentor, you know, someone who, because that mentor is not going to leave. Even if it's in the military or the civilian world, it's always someone that you can reach back out to, and kind of say, "Hey, this is what I'm having." You know, it's someone who may know more about that individual who can give more specific guidance, more specific help in order to get them off. So you know, I encourage people, if you don't have a mentor, find one. You know, it's not like people will be "No, I don't want to be your mentor." It's not like that you know. People want to be teacher, coach and mentor. And so I was saying the first step, find that mentor, wherever it is, whoever it is, and seek their guides, because they're going to know more about you than anything that I can say on your first step.

KP: 44:40

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And that's a great piece of advice is mentorship and finding a mentor and getting, you know, besides yourself and, and seeking the help from someone else who's already trailblazed and might be steps ahead of you already or maybe out of the military now and can help you navigate better than what they did. That's, that's huge. And if folks out there listening are interested in either applying for Gavin de Becker and Associates are interested in connecting with you, what's the best methods for them to get a hold of you or to apply for Gavin Becker and Associates?

Nick DuChene: 45:13

I'll start off with with Gavin de Becker first. So obviously, we're on LinkedIn, you can go to Gavin de Becker. We have our own website, which is gdba.com. You can go on there and learn. We're on Facebook. We're on Instagram, Twitter, all of those. A lot of information on our web page in regards to us and who we are, the training and all of that. A lot of information. I encourage people to read that first before, you know, applying to make sure that we are a good fit or you know, we are, you know, who you're looking for. As for me, I'm not a social butterfly. So I, I have a Facebook account only because when Facebook first came out, I thought it was a place where you upload your pictures, and then it stores it there, get it off your SD card or whatever. So it's there, I never check it. I am on LinkedIn. So just regular Nick DuChene at LinkedIn. Always happy to help out veterans. I have individuals who, who direct message me and so on. I will always take the time to answer questions as best as I can. And I'm not an email guy, and I'm a phone person. And so if you direct message me, you know, be prepared to "Hey, is there a good number I can reach you out? Or hey, here's my cell phone number, feel free to call me." Because I think there's a lot of things that get lost in translation when you email or text back and forth. And so I prefer that you actually hear someone's voice so I can hear the inflection, you know, when they're happy, or when they're, you know, they got a challenge that may be, that they may be facing.

KP: 46:34

Now that makes a lot of sense. I'll make sure I put all that information down in the show notes as well. So if you're interested, check out the show notes. You'll have all the links down there. And is there anything that you'd like to say to just final out the show and summarize anything before we finish off the podcast today?

Nick DuChene: 46:50

No, I mean, first and foremost, thank you for having me here. This is the very first podcast I've ever been invited on to do. And so it was definitely very interesting. motivational. I can actually say, you know, a longtime listener, first time caller. But I appreciate that. And then for all the veterans and service members, one, thank you for everything that you've done. And two, I appreciate that people are still out there serving our country.

KP: 47:16

No, the honor is all mine, Nick, and to be honest with you, it was the relationship of, at one point, I actually had looked into Gavin de Becker and Associates and I, I read the book that Gavin de Becker wrote, and then I found you on LinkedIn. And I thought, wow, like this is perfect. So I had to do my best to get you on the on the show and, and help spread the word because I really think that you're part of a very, very great organization. So I want to thank you for taking your time out today and explaining a little bit about you describing your experiences. So now people know, you know, who is the military recruiting director for Gavin de Becker. But then also, what is Gavin de Becker. So I appreciate you doing that today. And, and the honor is all mine so, so I guess that's it, it's the end of the show. And just want to thank everyone out there for listening. And I appreciate Nick for giving us his time today. Stay tuned for more, more podcasts down the road. And I just want to mention too, that all the things that mentioned earlier about, you know, the the free suit, the resources and whatnot. Again, that's something that my team that Act Now Education also offers. As far as providing that information for free. We don't charge anything. It's gonna be at the end of the, at the end of the the post roll and it's part of the pre roll of this show. I always talk about Act Now Education. And so a lot of those resources are out there. You just got to go out there and find them. And please, please check out Gavin de Becker's website, link up with Nick on LinkedIn and pick his brain for any questions if you're interested in getting into executive protection. So as for Nick and myself, thank you for listening to The Morning Formation and we're out.