Jan. 27, 2022

A Marine Corp Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) Originator: The Journey Transition of MGySGT (Ret.) Cardo Urso to MMA

A Marine Corp Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) Originator: The Journey Transition of MGySGT (Ret.) Cardo Urso to MMA
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The Ultimate Fighting Championship, Bellator MMA, and many other organizations have a stage in the shape of an octagon where warriors live, eat, and breath the sport known as Mixed Martial Arts.

Behind the scenes, a group of judges sit in the dimly lit area, front and center of the action. The back-story of one of those judges, Cardo Urso, includes an impressive military career, holds over five martial art black belts, and is known as a subject matter expert in combatives. Today, I am honored to have Retired Marine Corps Master Gunnery Sergeant Cardo Urso on the show.

NJ MMA Hall of Fame:

MMA Decisions:

Cardo Urso interview talks MMA in Iraq, Ring of Combat:

Cardo Urso MMA DVD:


This episode is powered by act now education, go to www dot att now for free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty veterans, military spouses, and children. So they were all over and we got done with the fight we'd been up. I mean it'd been all day it was miserable, hot. And my daughter and I and couple the other facials were there. And we looked out the end of the coke compound and almost all the fighters were either soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, I think they had a couple of contractors who fought they had a couple of pros with the amateur, we're all all soldiers in the military. And at the end of the compound, that's where those guys were stationed, or sleep and they were burned down there. And there was kind of commotion going around. So my daughter, nine, and we'll walk down there, and these, the soldiers are gearing up. Now they have just fought to three hours beforehand. And they're getting all their equipment on they got their flak jackets are helmets, they get there. They're there to weapons. And so what are you guys doing? And they said, well, we're going back to our unit as the tonight after the fight, and I said, Yeah, yeah, we knew we had to go. So yeah, we're going back to our units tonight. Now my daughter who had been a rink or girl with multiple organizations, while she turned to me and she said, pop, you know, if they were going, if they were back in the States, they'd be going to the after party. I said, Yeah, them going out to protect us. That's there after party. Thank you for joining us today, folks. The Ultimate Fighting Championship. billeter. MMA and many other organizations have a stage in the shape of an octagon where warriors live, eat and breathe, the sport known as mixed martial arts. Behind the Scenes a group of judges sitting in a dimly lit area front and center of the action. The back story of one of those judges, Mr. Cardo, urso includes an impressive military career holds over five martial art black belts, and is known as a subject matter expert in combatives. Today, I'm honored to have retired master Gunnery Sergeant Cardo urso on the show. Curtis, I want to start from the beginning. Where are you originally from? And what was your childhood like? I was born in 1958, in a place called Rutland, Vermont. My father used to build oil refineries. So we moved around quite a bit. Probably within seven or eight months after my birthday, I moved to Venezuela. That's where my name corto comes from. It was actually Richard at one point, and then we'll move to Venezuela, or maybe call me corto, shore for rich Ricardo, that name stuck. And when I got back, then the states back in 1976 or so I had to legally change back to court. Oh, my Oh man, moved around a lot. We did. By the time I graduated high school, I had lived in 41 states and four foreign countries. So at what point did you decide to join the Marine Corps? Well, my old man was a world war two vet. But he got out of the army back in 46. And I said, Yeah, then he started building oil refineries and pipelines. And I graduated high school, and I had a scholarship for wrestling. Now I went for a semester, and I failed horribly, everything I took. The job was successful when was wrestling. And when I went back home for Christmas break, I knew I was not going to go back to college. So a buddy of mine, and I decided to join the military. At that point, the only only service that I was interested in was the Marine Corps. Like I said, My father had served in the army and more to spot in the South Pacific, and worked fought alongside Marines. So when I decided to join the Marine Corps, he was very excited that I was going to join the Marines, and absolutely supported me in every way. Well, so can you take us back to when you signed up and sort of the progression of your career while you were in the Marine Corps? Oh, yeah, sure. I, I signed up. Initially, right out of high school, before I went to college, I was going to be an MP, and the MP field was closed, so I wasn't able to join them, but we're gonna ship a couple months later, but then I decided to go to college. I did that for three months, went back and joined the Marine Corps, and I joined as an artillery, artillery man fire direct, fire direction patrol. I started martial arts at night. He's 71. And when I went in the Marine Corps continued to train in different different martial arts reasons so many black belts is back then it was very difficult to find a style that you were doing in different places. So like if you New York, I was doing a system called de shukokai. When I got to camp Lee Joon shukokai, was not available. And I had to do different different styles of martial arts. Yeah, so I wanted to ask that's very that's really interesting in itself. The Marine Corps back when you first joined up, what type of combatives were they actually doing? And how did that play a role with your marine career? Well, the Marine Corps really didn't have any true combatives when I joined, there was a loose a very loose close combat program. But really, it evolved around pupil sticks. When I went to Parris Island, the only real combatives he did were pupil six. And then when I hit the fleet, there were there were FM's field manuals on close combat, but there was nothing really, really taught consistently. So I understand at one point, you were a drill instructor. He talked us a little bit about what that time was like, and some of the things that you had to go through to become a drill instructor and, and what was it like to have trained Marines back in those days? Oh, well, I joined the Marine Corps in 1978. In 1980, I went back to Parris Island as a corporal. My two drill instructors were actually there, two of the three drill instructors are still there. And with their di school, I had a ball I loved it. It was awesome. I was 21 years old, being put in charge of training 74 recruits and being responsible for their their basic training as basically trained marine. A little side note, as I also met my wife there in the PX when I was going to di school. Her dad was a Senior Chief in the Navy. And we ended up getting married there at Parris Island about two years later at the depot chap. I was a drill instructor for four platoons. And then I went out and took over at the water survival section, I had been a water survival instructor in the Marine Corps, and went out there and trained privates how to swim. And I did. It was a two year tour. And I ended up doing three and a half years, because the skill set that I had as a water survival instructor was a critical skill set that they needed. So I stuck around for a few extra years. Well, yeah, I know, definitely. I was stationed in Hawaii at one point and water survival was a big deal out there to get a lot of folks that were from landlocked areas of the United States who would get stationed in Hawaii, go out to the beach for the first time and try to hit the waves on North Shore, and ended up quickly discovering what rip tides are about. And so I could see why that would be a huge necessity for training. So can you talk to us a little bit about your martial arts background specifically, and when did you undergo the training and achieve the the belts that you achieved? Well, like I said, in 1971, I saw a movie called The five fingers of death. It was an old kung fu movie. And I watched those guys flying around and doing all this stuff. And I was like, man, I want to learn that. And of course, not realizing that Oh, that was theatrical. I didn't realize that at the time. And there was a small dojo in Rutland, Vermont, it was a witch's brew dojo, and I went there and it was completely different than what I had seen on TV can blur on down at the movies. But if it bit me, I really enjoyed doing it. And like I said, we moved about every year so the next year we moved from Rutland, Vermont to Glens Falls or SAP south glens falls, New York, and started doing a system called shukokai, which was a Japanese system and also did a little Judo at that time with my first instructor again, the pole for high school i'd wrestled. I bought a box in high school, played football and ran track. So it was kind of a mixed bag and that but the martial arts was something I did consistently. So I got my black belt in 1977 when the Marine Corps In 1978, and continued to train, like I said, I have a bunch of different black belts in different martial arts but again, not because I wanted to be a Budo butterfly. But the bottom line was, yeah, yeah, you had to if you weren't trained you were probably going to train in something different every two to three years because you're going to move and where you were going to go unless it was something like Judo which was a standardized thing. It was very difficult to find consistency with martial arts training in Okinawa, with a ski to toe over there. Another guy named Saeki, Toma, and way hotter, ski way hotter, train with those guys. They're really kind of honored to be able to do that, particularly, because they were all in their mid 70s. And where hado was 99 when he ended up dying, and I was lucky enough to be able to participate with his group at the world karate tournament back in 2002. Now would you mind just listing out all the belts that you've achieved over the years? And what a little bit about what that martial art involves? Well, I'll probably miss a few. But the first one was shukokai, which was a derivative of shito which was developed by a guy named kenwa mabuni. Yeah, she thought who had a lot of cars, probably 60 cars or so. Tani, who developed shukokai from it, paired the cars down and made it very sport oriented. It was very, very sport oriented. That was my first black belt. Then I got a black belt in the system called Tadashi dough from Paul trochlea. Where I continued to train also got a black belt in Okinawa. kempo ruku que han Campo. Two systems are co bujutsu with an auto in those two systems. I got USGA and a judge Judo, black belt on third degree black belt in judo. Been that for 20 years or so. sixth degree black belt in Combat Sambo eighth degree black belt in matsukaze, only jujitsu third degree black belt in goshi, Budo jujitsu. Boy, I'm going to forget some others. But again, just not not not because I was trying to just get different black belts, but I just wanted to keep training. And unfortunately, every time you went somewhere, you had to start trying to discern differences. Yeah, I completely understand that have been in the military myself every three, four years, five years or so you got to get up and move and go somewhere else and adapt to your surroundings. Now, when you started on this chain of achieving these belts, did you ever feel like a previous martial art that you trained helped you with the current one that you were working at? Well, they're all you know, when you're talking about karate systems, right? There's punching and kicking as sweeps and throws I guess. So they're pretty much going to be similar. When you're talking about Judo or Jiu Jitsu or Sambo throwing grappling, they're going to be similar also. So once you learned one, stand up striking art, the next one was kind of easier to learn. And the same with the grappling once you learned Judo or Jiu Jitsu was much easier to learn because the techniques tended to be the same toy so many ways you can bend an arm or a lake or strangle somebody. Right, that makes a lot of sense. And for anyone out there listening, if they're looking into getting started out in a martial art, do you have any suggestions for them? Yeah, what I was yes is you know, look, look around and try different things out again. Like now Judo is very difficult to do because I'm close to 63 and I have a lot of injuries. So Judo is very difficult for me to do, I really can't do it anymore. I can teach it but I can't do it. Or like I said, For the last one, when I hit 40 I started doing Tai Chi and Qi Gong and that stuff I'll be able to do in my 70s and 80s. So I would say you know, try different martial arts out see which one fits you best and and I think that's the one thing that the martial artists the Okinawans are a little different than the Japanese or the Japanese kind of had a cookie cutter approach where You were supposed to fit into the system, or the Okinawans years ago, used to train people individually on strengths and weaknesses. So it that's what I would say is fine, but you're, what you what you want to do what you like doing, and pursue that. Because the bottom line is, if you like it, you'll be more apt to pursue it and actually put the time into it. Yeah, you were truly one of the folks early on who understood mixed martial arts, I mean, just based off your background, and all the levels of degrees that you that you achieved in those different martial arts, would you mind bringing it back to the Marines and applying these martial arts to what you did in the Marine Corps, and talk about the initiation and the setup of the mcmap system that's being used today, the martial arts in that mix of martial arts, and I think we knew about it back in in the 70s, maybe even before that, but the mixture of martial arts that like I said, I did judo. And I knew that Judo didn't have a lot of striking, there was striking in judo, but it was in the contest, goshin jitsu and things like that. Then if you did karate, there wasn't there might be some throws, or some sweets, but there wasn't any crowd work, there was no submissions, not like that. And I had gone through a karate tournament in 1974. And I had not thrown one punch. And my father asked me why I didn't punch I said, I didn't like the way karate punched with the traditional straight punch. And he said, learn to box. So I think even back then we guys who were really trying to kind of realize that in order for us to progress and become complete fighters, you had to kind of do different things, you had to do some type of grappling, you had to do some type of striking, you had to do some type of stuff that would be have throws in and things like that. And, and that's how, how we evolved how I evolved in doing this stuff. In 1997, let me go back, I was a battalion operations chief and Third Battalion 10th Marines in 1992. And in 1993, I had heard that there was a new close combat program coming out in the Marine Corps. And I had the opportunity to go to the instructor course on that as a gunnery sergeant. And I believe at the time, I was probably one of the more senior guys ever go through that program. It was called the light system of close combat, which meant for which, which meant linear infighting, neural override engagement. And that system was the first system that in my career, we had had for the Marine Corps, it was truly a system that was repeatable, and and and taught as a as a system. It was a good system wasn't anything wrong with it. It was limited because we again, how much time and effort Are you going to put into anything? And so it was what it was, was a good system. The amount of time that they gave him guys to do it was adequate. In 1995, I think it was I left the the operations chiefs 310 and went to work at our staff Academy teaching our our, our staff sergeants in the career course now went into the Gunny set the advanced course. And while I was there, I got approached by training and education command at Quantico to go sit in on a course content review on close combat for the Marine Corps. So we had 10 subject matter experts. Guys like Bill Hayes, George nobles, Hunter Armstrong, George crystal, Ron Don Vito, Bob Casper, Kelly McCann, Lieutenant Colonel Humphreys, and gentleman by the name of jack Colvin. And these guys were different martial artists. Ron Don vino was the developer of line. I was one of his instructors. I had a background in judo and cut out a George Bristol trained with hunter Armstrong in a traditional Japanese weapons system. Bill Hayes was assuring rule guy, George nobles was a Sambo and Judo Taekwondo guy. Bob Casper was a internationally recognized knife in combatives expert Kelly McCann was basically the same thing by the way those two guys were also but ever use a former Marine that I that I know of. And and we sat down to vote the probe the new program now why did the new program exist? The car The Marine Corps at the time was a guy named general crew leg. And krulak had a vision of the Marine Corps with a new mission. He called it a three block war. And what he was saying is that first block is humanitarian relief. I'm handing out Mr. Reese to refugees. The second block, they start getting excited because there's no more food and they riot, well, a three round burst to the chest probably is an answer for that we needed a way of controlling them in that scenario, and in that third block was all out combat that we were really good at doing in the Marine Corps at the time anyway. So we were looking to go from basically non lethal to lethal force, and so long didn't do that line always lead to death, it was a close combat program. And that's where that was. So between the 10 smees, we started to put together different programs from non lethal to lethal force. And that's where the, the new close combat program came into. And that was 1997 to 1999. Then in 1999, we had a change in Maven, before that Maven 1998, we had a change of a common crew like retired, a guy named General Jones came in a general Joe started saying that he wanted to teach martial arts. So we had just about this new close combat program, close combat could be considered a martial art. And so I went to our, our boss, and I said, Hey, we're teaching martial arts, you know, the combat, somebody should let him know. And at the time, it wasn't higher priority. And that word, never got to the common out holy came out again and said, I want to teach martial arts. And again, we tried to get that word to him, and it never got to him. Third time he came out in writing said, I want to teach martial arts, and I have a subject matter expert in Aikido who's going to help us get Aikido dojos on every Marine Corps Base. And at that point, my boss at the basic school, saw a target of opportunity, and got the communists here. And I was sitting in my office, which was basically a broom closet at the basic school. And I got a phone call from the CEOs, Secretary, Sam, a messy mess are the common outs here and he wants to see it. And I said, You know, I, I thought he was pulling my lake. And he goes, No, no, you're coming out here. And he wants to see it. So I ran all the way up and got to the steel with Office. And sure enough, General Jones was there. And he invited me in and we sat down and he, he said, Let me explain why I want to teach martial arts. He goes, I didn't even know we program. So he said that when he was a company commander of Vietnam, the ROK Marines are on his flank. And the ROK Marines did not seem to get to get attacked by the North Vietnamese as much. And he thought it was because they were all black belt in Taekwondo. Now whether that was true or false, that was the perception. And he says, I want that perception for my Marine Corps. And at that point, he said, I want that perception so bad, I'm going to change the utility you inform you're in I was in a set of woodlands. And he goes, for us to say were the same utilities, as the rest of the unfortunate forces is a breach of our culture. So at that point, we had basically in a footrace with this civilian who was going to teach Aikido. And we, the company gave us an opportunity to go out and actually compete against him. And whoever had the best product would win the approval of what he wanted. So we went out and we did a test out in California. We were there for five weeks for at Camp Pendleton. We trained an infantry company. We got the staff and CEOs and officers up the brown belt and the new system. We got in the corporals and sergeants up to green belt and the troops, we got up to gray belt. The new program, the comment I wanted something I should mention, too, had three areas of discipline. It had the the physical, the mental, and the character. Okay, so basically, this goes back to traditional martial arts, or I'm not, not developing a warrior beast to put on developing a warrior defender. Someone who has the ethics to be able to know when and when not to do good or bad things right? Well, so it's not just about training the physicality part of it, but it was also changed training the, the mental side of things as well. The mental, the character, and the character of being the the the premier portion of it, the character portion, having somebody who knows the right thing and the wrong thing to do and choosing the right thing, that was the biggest thing, then the mental aspect of it is how do I enter into and actually have to use lethal force? You know, how do I, how do I prepare myself mentally to go out and have to possibly kill another human being? And then more importantly than that, how do I make sure that I'm going to be okay, after that? It's psychologically, and the physical aspect of it is the really, truly the least, the least important out of all, all the three? Right? Right, all around? And so when you implemented the the new program, can you talk to us a little bit about what how that was perceived and how that was? received by the Marine Corps as a whole? And have you kept up with the evolution of the Marine Corps martial art program? Yeah, you know, it was kind of interesting, because it was a common art driven program. So when something is a common art driven program, you don't get a whole lot of pushback on it. You know, maybe a little grumbling here. And there, you know, you had guys who didn't, you know, in the Marine Corps always had great martial artists was always had, you know, guy, but there's a lot of guys who don't do it. And now you had a program that was being implemented, that you kind of had to do. When I retired from the Marine Corps, I went to work for another federal agency, as a subject matter experts, and defensive tactics and combative. And when I left the Marine Corps martial arts program, I left it they didn't need the old master of any hanging over looking over their shoulder saying, No, that's the wrong wrist lock. It's supposed to be like that. Few years ago, they reached out to me, went down and was a guest speaker for the graduation. And in told them about that little bit of history of how the program had started and evolved, because they've been 18 years. This or late August, and on the first of September, I'll be going back down to the mace to observe their training, and then also to be guest speaker for their graduation. So again, one door shuts, the other door opens, I just retired from the federal side, after 19 years, and now I'm being brought back into the Marine Corps martial arts in the capacity of black belt Emeritus. It's amazing how you based almost your entire career just strictly on the martial arts that you trained and loved growing up. And my hat's off to you for that. Now, I will say this, because I'm a huge proponent, especially people who are in service of continuing education. And with that being said, that's something that you did through martial arts. I'm sure that martial arts helps you out with that free time that you had as well, doing something positive over something that like most young servicemembers would do. And in a sense, you used martial arts, to continue your education and invest in yourself, but at the end of your career ended up paying off. Well, you know, it's interesting you say that, because that's one of the things that the common General Jones, when he's talking about martial arts, what do you want? It was he wanted something that Marines would pursue, after hours? and on weekends, that would reinforce core values. So I mean, think about it, the where do we get our problems and our it with our, with our young troops, right? Saturday, Friday, Saturdays and Sundays, further away from the, you know, they're out doing things that young men and women do, and they get in trouble. So what he wanted was somebody that would say, Hey, we get this martial art, we can do it Saturdays and Sundays, you could do it after hours. And the instructor would be there to reinforce those core values of honor, courage and commitment, and that that's exactly what he was looking for. Now, that makes a lot of sense. And that's true leadership in itself is finding a positive method to get young soldiers or young Marines to do something positive over the over the, as I say, the wandering mind of a young adult so so you transitioned out and you worked for the federal agency, but I also understand that you got involved And mixed martial arts judging. Can you take us back to the beginning of how that started, and the evolution of that? Sure. Interesting, interesting thing back in the late 90s MMA be in 1993 UFC came about and that just floored us all as traditional martial artists. We saw where we had weaknesses of those, some of us had been knowing that for years, where there wasn't a way of really integrating it, but we thought starting to get integrated into this, into this, this mixed martial arts. And if you think back to the 1997 9899, in MMA, it was kind of trying to break break out of whatever it was going to be. And unfortunately, back then, a lot of the athletes who were competing, did not fit those core values of honor, courage and commitment that the Marine Corps was actually looking to reinforce with our martial arts. I actually had a sergeant of mine at the Marine Corps Martial Arts Center of Excellence, who competed in an MMA event and asked me if I would help him, and I wouldn't do it because again, the MMA at that point was not. It didn't hold with our core values. And I just thought it would be I'd be a hypocrite if I did. When I retired from the Marine Corps and went to work for this agency. I was doing a judo club, where we were doing a grappling competition on Naga, I'm sure you're familiar with them. And Kip Koehler got on the intercom and asked if anybody knew how to bracket being an old wrestler and being a boxing guy. I knew out of bracket so I said, Yeah, I can bracket and he said, both really helped me out. So I helped them bracket the the weights and the classifications. Then he asked me if I would help him run a ring. And I said yes. And we worked all day. And that night, they were doing an MMA show. It was kipps right next door to where the grappling tournament a gun. So Kip invited us to go to the fight. So I went over to the fights, and I was with a retired, worn officer, buddy of mine. And he goes, dude, you got to come meet this guy. He works for the commissioner, and he knows who you are. He'd like to meet. He's a marine. So I went up, and we introduce ourselves. And he said, Yeah, I've heard of the Marine Corps martial arts program. I told him was working with his federal agency. And he said, Have you ever thought about coming to work with us? And I said, Well, I already got a job. He says, No, no, no, as a part time making inspector. So I became an inspector for the State Athletic control board. And watch guys wrap hands up boxing and MMA. And as I sat down and watched the MMA, progress from being this kind of wild west, tough guy competition, they were really trying to make it a legitimate sport. I mean, really, really tried to make it legitimate. And my opinion started changing. Those had to be 2002 2003. My son and I were training and my son decided he wanted to get involved with MMA. And we started a club, I met Pat miletich. And we went out and became an affiliated miletich fighting system with Pat, and just started training in MMA, and I did a lot of a lot of judging for the state and then went international did a lot of judging internationally. And like I said, really, like, wherever made gun, as far as the character of it. Yeah. And so early on, can you tell us some of the different organizations that you worked for in judging MMA, and then also, some of the greatest fights that you had ever witnessed or judged or been a part of judging? Well, I actually I don't work for any certain organization. I work for the State Athletic control board. So so what happens is, you'll get in, they'll get in touch with you the State Athletic control board, or the ABC will get in touch with you. And and you do that so I've judged you FCS Bella doors strike. force, near budget, church a lot, a lot of different ones. And as far as the best fights I've ever seen, it's really hard to tell. I know I was in Madison Square Garden at the first MMA show they ever did. I was judging that one. I know Conor McGregor was on that fight. I think I judged his fight. I know afterwards, in New York City. The crowd was so loud, you couldn't sleep in the hotel. It was just unbelievable. But I mean, I've been very fortunate to be in MMA has an official just after beginning, you know, just after it actually started. I guess my my number one question is, and this is kind of near and dear to my heart because I was stationed deployed there actually was, can you talk to us about your trip to the zoo, Iraq, when you went over there on an MMA tour? Yeah, it was a really interesting. My wife, I don't know if it was on Facebook or whatever. But she had found a woman and I can't remember her name. She was a lieutenant Colonel's wife. She was trying to put together a show to try to entertain the troops in Iraq. So my wife reached out to her and told her that you know, I've retired master Gunny and I was a judge for multiple different states and judge at the higher levels of MMA. And then I'd be interested in participating in that and at the time I went to Boise State was Georgia that sanctioned the events and they brought me on and they brought my my daughter on also, as a ring core girl. We flew the mo to Kuwait and then in the mozal. We were there for I want to say a week and we did the show the show was outside. It was incredibly hot as you know. It was one of the it now you know, you say it, that was probably the best show I ever did. Out of all the shows I've ever done when you really when I sit down and actually think about it. Probably the best shot there was probably 10 amateurs and three pro fights. But it was absolutely absolutely a great experience. Give you an example we were pull in a compound together in mozal. And you know those see concrete See, see hooches they have where if you get mortared you go underneath those outside your I know this very well. So they were all over. And we got done with the fight we had been up I mean it'd been all day it was miserable, hot. And my daughter and I and couple the other officials were there. And we looked out at the end of the Cold compound and almost all the fighters were either soldiers, sailors, Marines airman, I think they had a couple of contractors who fought and then they had a couple of pros with the amateur were all all soldiers in the military. And at the end of the compound, that's where the those guys were stationed, or fleep. And they were burned down there. And there was kind of commotion going around. So my daughter nine that will walk down there. And these the soldiers are gearing up. Now they had just fought to three hours beforehand. And they're getting all their equipment on they get their flak jackets, their helmets, they get their, their their to weapons. And so what are you guys doing? And they said, well, we're going back to our unit as of tonight after the fight, and I said yeah, yeah, we knew we had to go. So yeah, we're going back to us tonight. Now my daughter who had been a rink or girl with multiple organizations, while she turned to me and she said, pop, you know, if they were going, if they were back in the States, they'd be going to the after party. I said, Yeah, them going out to protect us. That's their after party. And that was one thing you said before about the Warriors inside the cage. I don't believe those guys are warriors, real warriors of the guys who are over there. who were in Iraq, Afghanistan and Korea, and deal Europe and in South Pacific. Those were real warriors. Yeah, no doubt. I'm definitely putting your name on the dotted line and signing up for the military is something that's a heavy responsibility that many people don't do. Okay, yeah, I was up. I was there and Oh, 405 No, it's You know I while I was in the zoo myself it was really nice to have like uso come in I think we had Toby key we had a couple of rock bands come in, it was a nice break from from service and actually to get your mind off thing so I really appreciate you volunteering to do that because it would have been pretty awesome if I could have seen an MMA fight while I was in Iraq but definitely when you're over there, it's every night go outside the wire type thing. And I'm sure that the troops highly appreciated putting on that show. You've had quite an amazing career carto I everything from joining the Marine Corps to your martial arts background and all the folks that you've trained in the federal service you've affected so many lives in a positive manner it's an absolute honor to have you in my network and it was an absolute honor to have worked with you over the years and to know who you are today because you definitely had a positive influence on my life and I can't thank you enough for that you're you're truly like family to me, Carlos and I just want to say thank you because I'm sure that you affected many lives throughout your career. And I'm I'm one of them. So before we close out the podcast today Do you have anything else that you'd like to tell the listeners out there just find what your passion is and try to do it and do the best you can and you know we you'll succeed at some things and some things you won't and you know the old Serenity Prayer God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference between the two. Yeah, I tell you what, you're a true master I miss working with you. I miss working with you immensely and I'm just very fortunate to have gotten an opportunity to work with you and i i appreciate everything that you've given me I mean, when we work together you literally gave me the keys to your gym and let me train and teach Jiu Jitsu you know, in the gym, you know, one day a week and and I that was my savior at that time. So I really I really appreciate you and everything that you've done and for anyone else any anyone out there listening. You guys look on the the the side of the cage next time you're watching the UFC or bellator fight, you might see Cardo sitting there judging, many times he's in the zone focused on what the fighters are doing. He's probably one of the few judges that actually knows what's going on when the fight hits the ground because of his background in mixed martial arts as you can tell from today's interview, so look for him on there and I'll put some links on the show notes as well on some things that show how many fights he's actually judged and what was the outcome of those fights I know they keep those metrics online too. So I'm thank you for your time today appreciate you putting time aside and giving me the your your attention and and the interview. Alright, sir. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. We're out there for listening. The more information this is KP with Cardo and we're out