"Thought I’d Be a Chef. I Ended Up a Marine at War in Mortuary Affairs."w Mike Keevil

Formation And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Warriors fall in, it's time for formation. Today I'm joined by Mike Kivell, a recon Marine who served during a time of war, several wars to be exact, where decisions had immediate consequences and pressure was constant. But like many who have worn the uniform, the mission didn't end when he came home. From combat to competition shooting to using strategy as a way to sharpen decision making, Mike has taken those lessons and applied them to life, identity, and his growth. Today we're talking about pressure, ego, and the decisions we make, especially the ones that don't show up until years later. Mike, my friend, thank you so much for coming on the Morning Formation podcast. Yeah, this is awesome. Thanks for having me. You know, I have a whole lot of respect for you, uh, whether you realize or not. I mean, we've worked as peers, um, instructors before, on the same platform. You have also been in charge of me in a training environment where I had to go through one of your, in my opinion, rigorous courses. Um and all throughout the time that I've known you, the one thing that I can say that I highly appreciate is your quality and standards of excellence every single time. And I'm not just saying that to kiss your ass, man, because honestly, honestly, you challenge the shit out of me every single time, whether it was on the mats uh or it was in a tactical environment. Um and I just want to say I really appreciate you for that, and that's why I wanted you on the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Well, thank yeah, thank you. That's uh it's humbling. Um, and I guess like most other dudes like me were not very good at receiving compliments, uh, but it means a lot. And you know, we did have it it it is always interesting switching from peers to supervisor, I guess you could say, or coach, whatever, and then flipping back. Um that's something that's uh you get to see different versions of people on both sides.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah. Right. Yeah, and you talked about just before we hit record, you talked about facades, you talked about being different people in different environments, right? So let's just jump into that and talk about the different relationships that you've had to have as far as instructor, coach versus peer, and how do you switch gears between all those different um different positions, I guess.

Why Some People Lead Early

Boot Camp Voluntold Leadership Story

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, so I graduate or I retired from the Marine Corps in uh Jan January this year. Well, that was my ceremony. Um and I had this of course when you're retiring, you're thinking about what are you gonna say, your speech. And I actually used um I used Isaiah 54 uh from the Bible as kind of my baseline to expand on. So that morning I read it again, and then uh and then I kind of just spoke. And then uh so that was at like the official retirement in the uniform, the monkey suit doing all the things. And then we had a more closed doors type of thing later in the evening. And as I was transitioning out and turning over to the guys who are gonna take my job when I leave, um, I had a lot of time to reflect on who I am, why I did the things that I did, and kind of what built me. And for me, I wouldn't say my I wouldn't say my father raised me. I would say my father provided, he did the things, um, but he didn't he didn't really teach me anything. Um and we're not close. Um and so I joined the Marine Corps at 19. And I would say joining then 2004, I was raised by the culture and the environment that we were both in. And along the way, I I met good mentors, bad mentors, and my my closest mentor, I met him at uh well, we really got close in Afghanistan at 26. Um but I still wouldn't say he he raised me. So I was more or less raised in an environment where highly competitive, violent, um, aggressive, um and win at all costs, never quit. And so these kind of ideas like reinforced something in my head that I've kind of always had. So people will ask, I had a question the other day. I was helping a guy for college to interview a former supervisor. Uh, so he picked me, which was super humbling. And one of the question was about leadership. And are leaders like like, can you train to be a leader or are you born a leader? And I would say you're born a leader. I think you can train to be a manager, but I think you're born a leader. And here's the example. I, from the earliest time I can remember, for whatever reason, every friends group I've always had, and I grew up in an environment that was it was sort of like sandlot, but hockey instead of baseball. So it's a group of dudes, and we're just romping around the neighborhoods on our bikes with our roller blades in our packs, hockey sticks across the handlebars, and we're just going to different neighborhoods like playing hockey. Um I got into the mus A music scene for a while. So I played in a band. Um, you know, we went on tour, made CDs, uh, that was uh, you know, recording all that stuff, but in a group of guys, and then joined the Marine Corps, another group of guys. Throughout that whole time, and I don't know why, but for some reason I was always the decision maker. And and it wouldn't be upfront. It wouldn't be no one would ever say, Hey, Mike, what do you want to do? It would be like, Hey, what do you guys want to do? One person would say that, usually kind of the alpha of the group. And then just no one's making a decision, no one's saying anything, and I would be like, Well, let's go do this, and then be like, okay, cool, let's go do that. And that trend uh followed me into boot camp. And I'm uh so in Marie Corps boot camp, the first month is essentially ceremonial drill. You're doing all the rifle movements and you're just large formation, you're just marching all over the place, which uh before I joined, I had no idea that that's what it was. I watched Full Metal Jacket, right? Like I guess uh a bunch of dudes in uh our generation. And um, I remember thinking, I was like, are we gonna do anything like war related? Like I I I don't really get what what's happening right now, but I bring that up because I'm 71 inches, so everyone in the formation is by height order, so I'm in the middle, just a great gray man. And they pull this trick when you go from uh first phase into the next phase, and they fire all the squad leaders and the guide. So the the five dudes in charge of running the internals of the platoon all get fired, and they bring forward the platoon idiots. And um I guess my drill hat, uh, his job is he's sort of like an uncle. So you have like your senior drill instructor, he's like your dad. And then you have your drill hat, who's kind of like an uncle. He's mean sometimes, but he like he trains you uh, you know, a lot. And then you have your kill hat, and his job is to just be an asshole. His job is constant reinforcement of the standard. He's, you know, he's he's not fun to be around. Anyway, so my drill hat, Sergeant Wendell, and I remember him because he had he had a big ass Wu Tang tattoo on his chest. And um he comes back. Uh he was probably on leave or something. So he comes back and he's, you know, look around the formation, he's marching us to Chow or whatever. Everything nothing is working. Like nothing internally is working. And and he's like, he's like, what the fuck is going on right now? And he kind of just stops. And I guess he looked at all the squad leaders, and then he realized that the dudes that were good were all fired, and they have five idiots up there. And he's like, he looks at him. I remember this kid's name was Magnus. He talked like this. Uh he's from Maples, Florida. I can't believe I remember that. And um, he's like, Yeah, fuck no. He's like, you're done. And he's like, uh he's picking out the other dudes, uh, the the original ones, and there was one spot left. And I'm just standing there, you know, and he's like, Who the fuck is gonna lead these recruits? And then a kid behind me is like, yo, you should go up there. And I'm like, I'm not going up there. And then another kid turns around and goes, Oh, you? Like, yeah, you should go. I was like, I'm not fucking going. And they're like, and then another kid turns around and said, You should go. And so uh Sergeant Wendell asks again, who the fuck is gonna lead these recruits? And I said, here, sir. And he's like, Who the fuck is that? And I run up there, he looks at my name tape, and uh he's like, Kevil, Kivel, kibble's in bits. He's like, All right, cool. And then, you know, we were the the internal leadership, and I remember thinking in retrospect, like that was the first time in the Marine Corps where I don't want to say I was forced, but I was like summoned. And and and that has kind of just been um, you know, a constant throughout my life. So I joined this organization and uh we'll get into it later, but how I lat moved into reconnaissance because I didn't join initially. Uh I was actually a cook. I wanted to be a chef. I saw that. And um what's that? I saw that on your bio. I was like, I didn't hear that. Yeah. So um anyway, I when I went to Reconnaissance uh uh after three years, I was like, this is exactly where I want to be. These are the people I want to be around, and it was it was brutal. I mean, it was and it this was 2000 uh so I I had the idea or was introduced the idea in 2006 in Iraq. And then 2007 uh is is when I went. There was nothing on the internet. Like I there was maybe one YouTube video that was terrible. Um you couldn't find anything about it. And um I didn't know who they were, I didn't know what they did. Um so I get into that environment, and it was, I mean, uh a platoon of guys are coming off the bus. You know, 30 guys come off the bus after like one thrashing, and it it's it's like the logs and dude, the dudes are in their uniform, they're in their service alpha uniform, the the green ones, and they have this log over their chest, and they're just getting thrashed, the hose is in your face, you're just getting destroyed. But it's one of the few jobs in the Marine Corps where you can quit, you can DOR at any time. And so I remember looking around and dudes are just quitting left and right. And so that you know, my mentality to achieve at all costs and accomplish the mission, right? Reading books along the way, like Pete Blaber's book, The Mission, the Men and Me, um, that kind of defined who I was. So I became the job, which worked for a while. Um, and we'll get into it later when it it worked until it didn't. But that facade is what you saw as as like your instructor, where whether you like it or not, my job is to get you across the finish line. The only way you don't is if you quit or you quit on yourself. And when I meet people and we become peers, they automatically think that's how I'm gonna be. It's the same thing with ranks, right? When as my guys and and the guys who took over for me, you know, I met them 19 Lance corporals in the Marine Corps, fucking Lance criminals, you know, kids. And now they're staff sergeants, gunnies. And then there were times where we were both the same rank, and they'd be like looking at me weird. I'm like, what's up? And they're like, You're like not yelling at us. I'm like, that's not my job anymore. You you're my peer now. Like and so at the end, I s I actually started to realize I had like multiple facades that that I wore to survive the things that I had to survive.

Signing Up As A Marine Cook

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Right. Um you know the reality is I I had a similar moment. It's weird that you mentioned that when I was in army basic training, they made me the third squad leader. Now, I wasn't squad leader of the cycle, but I did not get fired the entire nine weeks. Like I and that's the weird thing was I think they just forgot about me because I'd never nobody in my squad ever had any issues. I always had two smart books, two canteens, two of everything in case anyone was fucked up. But I had to switch gears too. Like when I became a squad leader, and I I remember getting in people's asses, even as an 18-year-old kid wearing that little thing around my my arm uh the entire cycle. And and and again, like I remember at the at the end of it all when I graduated, my drill sergeant walked up to me and was like, You've been a squad leader the entire cycle, haven't you? And I was like, Yep. I was like, I was a third, third squad squad leader the entire cycle. He didn't fire me. They kept confusing me for this other Asian dude named Whiteman, and they kept they kept saying, Whiteman, come here. And I'm like, I'm not Whiteman, drill sergeant, I'm I'm uh Private Phillips. And it's similar to like how it was when you and I worked together, they would always walk up to you and confuse because I wore the glasses back then. But uh yeah, man, that's that's interesting that you had that early on um initiation into the understanding of switching gears and positions. Um and it's similarly, it's similar to when you're taking over a squad, you introduce yourself and then you know you um acclimate yourself to your entire group or whatever it is. And um when I gotta ask this question, how the hell did you end up as a cook? Like if you were it you seem like your entire life you were a knowledgeable guy, you were sort of a a student where you wanted to read, you wanted to learn. Was that just them throwing you into the core somehow, some way, or do you think that they even made an attempt to like line you up characteristically with what you should be?

SPEAKER_02 16:37

No.

Regret, Drive, And Wanting Infantry

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Um it's interesting because again, that that is a a version of me that that you have met. Um I'll start from here. I read a Time magazine article in Afghanistan, and it said something to the effect of 85% of all college students, and this is 2011, uh fail or drop out. And I remember thinking to myself, if I get out of this, I'm I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to college. And I already had a great job, uh, but I just I read this article and I was like, fuck that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. That right there has been a recurring theme in my life. Fuck that. I'm gonna go do it. And so when I get back stateside, um I apply, uh I actually applied to VMI originally. They were like, hell no, get out of here. Um and then I was applying to George Washington University in um Washington, D.C. And I had to get my high school transcripts. So at the time I'm 27, yeah, 27. I drive three hours back to Lansdale, Pennsylvania, where I grew up. I go to my high school, I walk in there, pull my transcripts, and all these memories came back from 10 years prior. And um my I was looking at my my report cards and I had forgotten, I almost failed high school. Um I barely graduated, uh, bottom third in my class. Uh, and and that school was pretty big. It was only three grades, about 900 to 1,000 kids per grade. It's a huge school. And my grades were A's or F's. I either was about it or like not about it. Um so that was kind of interesting to kind of look back. And um so I wasn't always a student, like at all, um as far as academics go. And then, you know, of course, now I'm older, uh, I've found way more purpose in life. And, you know, I I was upset that I didn't have a 4.0. Uh I graduated at 32. Um, you know, I did this the summer stuff, I did night school, I did, I did all this working at the same time. It was it was a lot looking back. And um I think I had like a 3.8 something. And uh so anyway, I didn't really develop a student mentality until I would say in and around that time. And and that's also in and around the time that we met. Uh, because I think we were like 30, I think you're like one or two years older than me, but this is like 2015 when we first met. I was around 20. And um yeah. So anyway, I uh graduated high school barely, and I quit my job that I worked at uh all throughout high school, and I worked at a convenience store, I worked at CVS, and I quit um to go play a show with my band. You know, like I said, I I played music uh my whole life. Um, so I was really into that. And uh so I I was asking around, hey, I need a job. One of my friends, uh Danny Campbell, he plays, he's he's in the only band, they still play together. They're called the Wonder Years. They're like the only band that kind of made it from my hometown. And um, he was like, hey, we have dishwashers at this nursing home. So I was like, fuck it, I'll go do that. So I was a dishwasher and then uh uh for the summer after graduation. And then I got into community college because I couldn't get anywhere, obviously. I think I had like a like a 940 on my SATs, just like not academically inclined at all. Um and so now I needed a full-time job. And I'd moved out uh from my house uh because I lived with my band. And they were all older guys. And um so I need a full-time job. Well, a full-time position opened up as one of the line cooks who made food for the staff, not for um like the nursing home patients. And I get it, and I'm under the wing of this guy. What was his name? His name was Paul. Uh, and he was a he was a great chef. And so I, you know, he took me under his wing and we're cooking, and and I loved it. And I was like, this is what I'm gonna do. Uh, I want to be a chef. So I'm like researching like Culinary Institute of America, and I'm I'm trying to figure out like how can I, you know, how am I gonna make this a career? And um one day I was getting gas at the gas station down the street, and back when it was like 98 cents, right? Which is just weird to think nowadays, you know? 10 bucks fill my tank. And um I see this kid named uh Chris Marnelli, and we called him Crazy Kid in high school. And he had a high and tight haircut, and he had the the Neapolitan kind of ice cream uh sunburn around his head, uh super, super white dude, you know. And um, I see him and I was like, Crazy kid? He's like, what's up, Mike? And I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I just joined the Marine Corps. I got out of helicopter whatever school. I'm a door gunner, and I was I was instantly envious. And this is the only time I've had this thought of I'm envious of you, right, as a person. So at the time I didn't know that he was on recruiter's assistance, right? Every when you know, you go to boot camp, then you have your kind of couple days off, and then you go meet up with your recruiter. Hey, go find all your friends and and whatever. So that's what he was doing. So I go to the recruiter's office and uh I sit down in front of this guy named Sergeant Moran. And you know, he's just it Marine Corps. And I recruited for a little bit, so I understand the mentality, but like you don't convince anyone to join the Marine Corps. That's what I learned. Like the dudes who want to join, they walk in your door. And so I walk in and he's like, What do you want? And I'm like, Well, uh, I want to be a Marine. He's like, And he's just sitting there in his chair like this. He's just like, Okay. He's like, All right, have a seat. And so he's like, What are you doing? So I explain what I'm doing, and he goes, So you want to be a chef? I was like, Yeah. He's like, I'm a chef in the Marine Corps. I was like, for real? He's like, Oh yeah. I was like, Well, how is it in compar? I'm 19 at the time. What year is this? No, I this is 2004. I no, no, no. I turned 19 two days after I signed to join. So this is like the week prior. I'm like about to be 19, I'm 18. And uh I'm like, well, how is it in comparison to the Culinary Institute of America? He's like, we cook for generals, like it's just as good. And I was like, cool, man. And he goes, Yeah, you know, like sometimes, you know, every Marine's a rifleman, so we'll go out and do like stuff with the grunts. And I was like, All right. And he goes, How many pull-ups can you do? And I was like, I don't know. And and I played hockey all throughout. I played hockey forever. Um, it's fun now because my kids are older, so we play hockey together. So it's nice. But um, that that is the one thing I miss about like my high school years was like the pickup games and playing the leagues and stuff like that. So anyway, we go in his back office and I do like 13 pull-ups. And then uh he's like, Well, can you run? I was like, he's like, How fast can you run a mile and a half? I'm like, I don't know, dude, but I I'm pretty fit, you know, whatever. So he's like, All right. He's like, Well, we got a seat in two. He said, When do you want to go? I was like, as soon as possible. He's like, I got a seat in two months for a cook. Um, come back in a day and let me know if you want to do it. And then I went home and then uh I went back in the next day, and I was like, oh, and uh I had a girlfriend at the time, and uh so I went reserve right off the bat. Um and so I go back in the next day, I turned 20. No, I turned 19, sorry, signed, and then two months later I leave. And so I wasn't in the debt program, the delayed entry program long at all. Um went to MEPS, took the ASVAP, passed, and this will be relevant later, but passed, whatever, so I can join, cool. Do all the silly things, and then um I went on vacation with my parents, and uh, that was interesting when I came home and I was like, hey, I joined the Marine Corps. They're like, when do you leave? I'm like, two months. And um so go to boot camp, and this is the summer of 2004. So I vividly remember like the first battle Fallujah just happened. Um the my graduating class, a bunch of those guys were in the in the first battle. Um, dude, I'm drawing a blank right now. I was thinking about him earlier, but uh the one guy who got the medal of honor for taking his helmet off and like covering the grenade at the checkpoint, he was just announced to be the medal of honor. So they're telling us these stories. And this was like pretty impactful. So we're in the squad bay. I had like a 90-man platoon. There's two black lines that go across the squad bay right in front of your racks, right? So everyone's standing there online, and my senior drill instructor, his name was Stasen Rivera, he was a Puerto Rican dude, um, really thick accent. He kind of breaks character for a second, and he goes, Hey, if you're an 03, take a step forward. And like half of everyone from both sides of the online, like, take a step forward. And I'm like, I don't know what an O three is, so I'm just gonna stand here. Like, I learned the rank structure, and that was about it. So he's like, Look, you're gonna be in Iraq in the next six months. So like this shit is real, and you need to take it seriously. Like, you are going to combat. And and then that night in the racks, you know, and then when we get put to sleep or whatever, and everyone's kind of breaking all the rules, I'm like, hey, I'm like, what's an O3? And they're like, infantry. I was like, but I thought we're like all infantry, like every Marine's a rifleman. And they're like, no, dude. I was like, well, shit. And someone was like, Well, what are what's your MOS? I was like, 3381 food service. And then it dawned on me. Dude, I go to the the hatch, and you're not supposed to go to the drone instructor, like hooch. And I like bang on it, I get in there, I'm like, sir, you're gonna need me, sir. Recruit key will cry to speak to the drone instructor, sorry, whatever. They're like, get the fuck in here, slam the door, and uh they're like, what's up, dude? And I'm like, uh, this recruit needs to change his MOS. And they're like, nope, sorry, dude. Like, you signed the contract. Uh and I was like, look, I and I kind of broke out of because you're supposed to speak in third person. Um and you're not, you're not allowed to say I or me. And I was like, look, I fucked up. I want to be in the infantry. I don't even understand. And Statsman Rivera's like, yo, um, you need to talk to your next command. I was like, okay. And then um after that, I kind of I fell in love with boot camp, all of it. Like never shot a gun until I joined the Marine Corps. Um, shot expert. I had a first class PFT. Um, at the time, swim qual one was like the hardest swim call to do. And it's the one where you have to save like a drowning person, but the drowning person is an instructor. So they're literally taking you down to the bottom of the pool. Later on, I would become that swim instructor. So like I would take people down to the bottom of the pool. And um, so I passed that. So a little bit later on, we're with our our kill hat, and he goes, Hey, who got swim call one? And there was only two guys out of my 90-man platoon that got it, and only like six guys in the company of like 300 that that got this. So I stand up and he goes and he looks at me, and uh, his name was Fleming, and he's like, he's like, Keeble, he's like, didn't you shoot expert? I was like, Yes, sir. He's like, first class PFT. I was like, yes, sir. He's like, what's your MOS again? I was like, food service. And he's like, he looks at me, he's like, I think you're in the wrong job. And so I explain all that to where this is like building this drive in me that I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I'm like in the door, but I want to be in like the rooms over there, right? And so I uh I go to Marine Combat Training, which was I I hated it. And and now it's like fully dawn on me. And then I go to cook school and I'm wearing the stupid chef outfit. Marines will laugh. We wear like these maroon things. You have a gold rank. Actually, on one of my recon paddles, my guys thought it'd be funny to put uh the gold rank on there as a joke. And uh I was so embarrassed, dude.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I was just gonna be able to do that. Well, then not to mention, like not to mention the the peers that you had around you too that were fit that were fit for that job, but you have like an infantry mentality, right? So you probably didn't feel like you've you really fit in to that group, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Um not necessarily. Um like I've always been pretty moldable to like different groups of people. Like like I said, and and I equate all that to uh literally growing up with seven or eight dudes on my block, and we were together all the time. So I I was I I've always been generally an introvert in groups. I'm sorry, an extrovert, like in groups, right? Um, always loud, whatever. So anyway, uh now it's like fully dawned on me. And I'm watching the news, everyone's going to Iraq, all my friends are going to Iraq. Like it's just the thing to do in 2004, 2005. I finished all my schools and stuff in 2005. Well, anyway, I get a phone call from a kid that I met in cook school, and he also got bamboozled by the uh recruiters because he wanted to be an officer. And they're like, hey man, if you just go to boot camp right now as a cook, you want to be an officer anyway. Yeah, it don't matter. So we both together were like, shit, like this is this is not what we want to do. And so he his unit was uh Morituary Affairs in Anacostia, Washington, D.C. And so he calls me one day and he's like, Hey, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing, dude. I think I I went back to being a fry cook at I think Benegens. I don't know if you ever heard of it. It's kind of like a Chili's. Um actually, did you ever see the movie Waiting with Dane Cook? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

It was kind of like that, to be honest. I just had some clips pop up on my YouTube yesterday on on waiting. I was like, God, that's such a classic. Yeah. Uh, but it was like that.

Mortuary Affairs And The Cost

Choosing Recon And Training Obsession

SPEAKER_01 32:33

And and I mean, I had fun. I learned a lot. Like, again, I'm like, I guess I'm just cooking now. So he calls me, he's like, hey, do you want to go to Iraq? I was like, Yep, I'm in. And he and I was like, well, wait, what's the unit? And he's like, Mortuary affairs. I was like, what is that? He goes, Well, we pick up the dead bodies, but we're not gonna do that. We're gonna be like holding security for them. And I was like, Yep, I'm in. And so I transfer units down to Washington, DC. And then um we go through the training, which was whatever, and then we go to Iraq, and um I get stationed in Camp Fallujah, and I worked uh at the uh PRP personal recovery and processing, and our kind of shop was right next to Fallujah Surgical. And I'm picking up all the dead bodies, right? Like uh I was a seven-ton driver, which that helped me in Afghanistan uh in combat. But um the only time we left the wire was for mass casualties. And so um the one the one impactful one uh I remember, and and I'd gone on other little ones, and we would meet up with the security element, they would give us some sort of like brief, and then we would go, you know, out in zone, um, pick up the pieces and whatever's left over, and then come back. Uh and and just for like full spectrum understanding, like you get hit in a combat zone, you go to Mortuary Affairs uh station, whether it's Army or Marine Corps, and then you get we call it processing or processing angels, and um which that means we go through all your personal effects. There were two things that bothered me about that. Um well, I'll I'll come back to that. But we go through all your shit, and then within usually within 48 hours, uh the milk run, like the midnight uh air resupply Helos would pick you up, take you back to TQ, and then from TQ to Germany, and then Germany to Dover. Dover's where they do the full spectrum analysis of cause of death, and then you're sent to um like burial, right? Whether it's your family, Arlington, whatever. So that's that's what happens when you when you know when you die. Right. And so then this platoon sergeant comes in, and he just looked a little bit different, and I still don't know who or what he is. And I had seen recon guys at the gym, and I didn't know like amphibious reconnaissance was reconnaissance man, MOS, 0321. Didn't understand that. What I understood was they have super low hair, lower than mine is now. Um, they'd wear like moccasins and then black-on-black PT gear, and no one fucked with them at all. And me being a regular Marine, like at the time, if you were in the gym, you had to wear green on green. And you're always getting yelled at for your shirt untucked or something dumb. And I remember just looking over these guys, I'm like, who are these dudes? Anyway, so this platoon sergeant walks in and there was just something different about him. And he goes, Hey, um I'm gunnery sergeant, whoever from Second Recon, uh, we need your support. And I was like, yo, I'm going. So me and my A driver and my gunner, uh, we go over to Second Recon's compound on Camp Felugia. And essentially, they had a Humvee hit an IED, all five guys uh were killed. So mas situation. So we go out there and we were in um the Karma, like Zidon area, and we drive out there, uh, I see the Humvee, and it was the worst wreckage I've ever seen. Um to put it in perspective, I mean, it like the Humvee was, I mean, the the roof was like this. It was crazy how destroyed the the Humvee was, the up armored Humvee. And so uh we had to pull all the bodies out, put them in the bags, um, and then get them on the truck. Well, they also had a seven-ton record truck that picked up the Humvee and put it on the truck. Well, it was so unstable, we drove back to Camp Fallujah. I mean, it was it was less than 10 miles an hour. It took forever. And by this point, I'd been already up for 24 hours. And so we're we're driving back down um Haji Road, and it's it's so slow. So finally get back, and the other, my other teammates came in, they're we're taking the the angels off the truck, and then that platoon sergeant comes back, and he's like, hey, uh two more guys were hit. And I was like, I'm going back out. So me and the the same crew that went out before, we go back out again. And um we go back out there, and what happened was there was an IED on the road we just drove on, and this road was paved, right? It looked like any road in the States, minus like the lines and stuff, but it was a fully paved road. And we're I'm I get out of the seven-ton, I'm walking up. The crater is the width of the road, right? And it was probably about five or six feet deep. And dude, there's just body parts everywhere. And so um, I don't remember the engineer's name, but I remember the second recon dude's name. His name was Steven Bixler. And his story was he was a two-time um combat veteran in the infantry. He wanted to become recon, and before you do that, you go through it's called a rip or uh recon indoctrination platoon. The names changed over the years, but it's essentially what I was talking about before, where like, you know, the only way to fail really is to quit. Um and they will do heinous things to make you quit, right? Well, he passed that and he was going to go to uh recon school, but they were like, hey, we're deploying and we need veterans for the security platoon. Will you go and we'll just send you back to school when you get back? So he he went. And so he was in uh one of the last vehicles of the security element of that convoy that we were just on, right? So they see something weird in the road, him and the engineer get out, they start metal detecting it, and then the trigger man saw him and just blew up two guys. And I remember taking a knee and I like looked up, and there was like a bunch of like it was a marker hanging down from the the telephone poles. And so I mean, we're I'm picking up teeth, brain matter, I'm I'm picking everything every piece up of this angel uh off the ground, and then um, you know, put them in the bags the the best that we can and then drive back to base. And I mentioned earlier, like, what were the two things that bothered me? Um, and it wasn't the gore. The gore honestly looked fake. And I've seen everything from like this is an Iraqi guy, but uh a piece of shratnel like cut his head like this. So it looked like someone took a sword at like a samurai or whatever. And uh everything from that to pieces to a dude had a heart attack, uh, a a contractor on the on the base. Um and so but the thing that bothered me was when we'd have to go through their personal effects. And it was the pictures of uh family, um, keepsakes, lucky charms. Uh believe it or not, dog tags don't mean anything, uh, because dudes trade dog tags all the time. They have dog tags with their fallen friends. So dog tags are never used to identify you. It's gonna be off of kill rosters, kill numbers, or uh, you know, tattoos as well. Um, that's why they always ask that in the in the rosters and in the medical forms and shit. So the keepsakes bothered me. But this was the second thing that bothered me. Um, because all the infantry guys knew that within 24, within 24 hours, your body's picked up and you're going backs stateside. So they would, you know, their teams or their platoons would come to our shop and be like, hey, can we have like a little ceremony like for our fallen brother? And be like, yeah, of course. So take them out back. We had like this giant uh like refrigerator uh connex box. They would do their thing. And then as they were walking out, and this happened multiple times, and it's just like burned in my head, but it was the way they put on their their covers, right? In Marines, they they put the covers on, so the brims like this. And it was like the way they put their hats on and they would like cut their eyes at me, not in a bad way, like they're not, you know, but they would just look at me and just say, Thanks, man. And the way they cut their eyes back as as they left, it just always like stuck with me. And I was like, I'm gonna go do what those guys are gonna do. Wherever it is, wherever it is, whatever it is, I want to go do that. And so I I start seeing posters around Camp Fallujah, and um, it was uh tryouts for Marine Recon. And it said N-E-M-O-S. And this is the first year where non-infantry guys, non-O3 XX Marines could try out for Marine Recon. And the same buddy that I went to cook school with, we get on the phone at the call center, and we're calling every infantry unit on the East Coast asking if they would take us. And and no one would take us, no one would lat move us. And then Fourth Recon, uh, the the reserve battalion moved from um Billings, Montana to Atlanta. And we called them and we talked to the first sergeant. We're like, hey, will you take us? And he's like, Yeah, if you can pass the screener, we were like, Well, what's the screener? He's like, You'll find out when you get down here, but you can you can transfer. We were like, sounds great. So fast forward, I get back from Iraq. Uh, I'm I turned 21 there. Um, I actually got back September 11th, 2006. And so I'm 21, no bills. Uh, I had$25,000 in the bank. And I remember that because I just submitted for my military buyback, and I was looking at all my pay stubs from the last 22 years, and I was like, man, I really did only make$25,000 uh when I was over there, right? Um at pennies, right? And compared to now. Uh so I have no bills, nothing. I have this goal. I am gonna prepare, I guess, for this thing that I don't really know anything about, but they go over there, they're not here. And um I did meet a guy, he got wounded. Um, I did see him later on in life, but uh he was another recon dude, he got hurt, so I like walk over to him, I'm like, hello, uh, I want to be recon. And he's like, Oh yeah? I was like, Yeah. And he's like, Do you I was like, Do you have any advice? Because I can't find anything on the internet. He's like, Do you know what an A-Count bodybuilder is? I was like, nope. So he shows me and he's like, do a lot of those. And I was like, okay. I was like, uh, what else? And they're like, swim in a sweatsuit. And I was like, okay, what else? And they're like, just do that. I was like, okay. So that same dude I was telling you about, we get an apartment in Virginia and move down there and we didn't get jobs. All we did was we seven days a week go to George Mason University. Because that was the only Olympic-sized pool. And we would just do the dumbest shit ever and then do a physical fitness test afterwards. So we would swim in a sweatsuit, swim in camis. Um the movie The The Guardian just came out with uh Ashen Kutcher and um Kevin Costner, the Coast Guard rescue swimmer movie. So like we're we're just doing what they did in the movie, and um that was really it. And then um we go uh to the unit, check in. This is in Atlanta, so we just drive down there and we take the screener. And the screener was just it was pretty easy. It was just swim 500 meters in camis, uh tread water for 30 minutes, do an underwater swim 25 meters, um, make a float with your um blouse, and then run a PFT. And you needed like a 285 out of 300 to go. And then so we did all that. And they're like, okay, cool, you can check in. Um oh, sorry, I totally forgot. The ASVAP. I had to retake the ASVAP, dude. So I was looking at the the requirements and it was like Swim Call One, boom, got it, right? From back before. Uh first class PFT, boom, I got that. ASVAP, you needed a GT score of 105. I was like, what's a GT score? And as the general technical, it's like your IQ, not your IQ, but your kind of your IQ.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Yeah.

Retaking The ASVAB For Recon

SPEAKER_01 46:24

And so I had like a 94. So I was like, you know, short. I was like, shit, well, I guess I gotta retake the ASVAP. And uh, dude, I bought a book and uh studied, and I was like, I cannot fuck this up because if and and this was ultimately the driving force to pass that school and that whole time in my life was like, if I fail any of this, I go back to picking up dead bodies and like I'm just not doing that again. So I get the ASVAB book study. I had to go take the paper version, um, and then I got a 111. So boom, got that. I was so nervous. I remember this, uh, like looking at the envelope as it's like my ASVAP scores. Um so anyway, go down there. Um I go to our version of Recon Indoctrination Platoon. And um we just we drove 17 hours from uh Atlanta to San Antonio. We got in at like 11:30 p.m. But I remember seeing the sign and it said like 4th Recon Battalion, Recon Marines awaiting training, like freedom is in free. And I had like chills as I saw this sign, and I remember thinking, I was like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be right now. And I walk into the barracks, and there's just a Lance Corporal sitting at the duty desk. It was a squad bay, and and then uh at you know, I'm like, hey, I'm Lance Corporal Kivil, whatever, this is Lance Corporal so-and-so. We had a sergeant with us. He was one of my mentors in life uh Zeb uh Barnes. He was a sniper before. And um then I see all these like skinny, ripped dudes like coming out of the barracks or coming out of their little cubbies, like uh in between the racks, right in the squad bay. And what I didn't know at the time was they were sizing us up because at the time there were there was the East Coast Recon School, ARS, Amphibious Reconnaissance School, and then the West Coast School Basic Reconnaissance Course. Later on, they closed down the East Coast School, they consolidated everything over on the West Coast, and uh now they only go to the the where BRC used to be on Coronado, which is where Buds is at, uh for amphib phase. Um but previously it was there the whole time. Um but they were offset by about two months. So every other month, the top 10 guys of this rip platoon got a seat to go. And it that was the most competitive shit I've ever done in my life because every day, if you weren't the top 10 in what you did, you were in fear of losing your seat to go to school. And, you know, grace of God, dude, I I was only there for three weeks. And now I was strong in the water, I was strong in certain ways, but I struggled with the infantry skills. I also struggled with the ruck running. Um that wasn't ever a thing, right? You would go on humps like as a regular Marine, but this is like entirely different, right? So 50 pounds, uh 55 pounds minus water, uh 12 miles, three hours like is the standard. And I remember the first time I went on this ruck run, um, and I was not conditioned for that at all. And the rules were if you're the last dude, you and the guy in front of you fails. And I remember I was running and I was hurting really bad. And this car was like behind me. I'm like, is this car gonna pass me? And I looked behind me, it's the safety vehicle. And I was like, oh fuck no. I was like, that means I'm the last guy. So I like sprint up to the rest of the guys and then we finish out. So that was like my first lesson of I was being weak, right? I was getting all emotional. Uh, my body hurts, right? And and I could have been up there the whole time. And um, but like I was saying, I struggled with the infantry skills. Like, so land nav uh was a was a big one because in marine combat training, they they like gloss over it, they don't teach you shit. And luckily, like the dude I was telling you about, Zeb Barnes, the sniper, I went up to him, I was like, hey, like I don't know what I'm doing, dude. And he was like, All right, let me teach you. And to this day, whenever I teach Land Nav is exactly how Zeb taught me how to do it. And I've taught it all over the world thousands of times to other people, but I really valued him taking the time to like teach me how to do the resections and what is the your attack plan and all that shit. So uh yeah, I go to recon school and I academically I graduated like top 10, but physically I was always like bottom third. And from that experience, kind of put in my head of like, I need to get better at like rucking. I need to because I I I never wanted to be like bottom third in in anything ever again. And um, yeah, so long story longer, that's how I went from cook to to recon man.

Recon Indoctrination And Humbling Lessons

SPEAKER_00 51:39

That's that's interesting. I let you run with that story for like 30 minutes because that is fascinating. You people undermine the idea of things like mortuary affairs, but they don't think about the heaviness of what that job is like. Like having to go pick up bodies and the way you described just like picking up body parts, um, that that that job is a lot more involved than you realized. And I could see where where the the marine recon guys had an effect on you with their professionalism and their standards. Um, I had something similar to what I was branched ordnance originally. And I remember when I was in OBC just standing there, I I hated it, I hated the systems. I remember a warrant officer pulled me aside and he was like, What's wrong with you? And I was like, I just this isn't my branch. Like, this isn't what I want to do. And my dad was combat arms, he was infantry for like 20 years, and he pushed me into logistics because he thought that corporate America would come find find me at the end of my, you know, typical, you know, story, right? So I ended up in Iraq as a transportation platoon leader, which was really for for a support guy, was not a bad place. And 2000 at the end of 2004, 2005, right after Fallujah in Mosul, I was able to go outside the wire and experience uh what was going on, like you know, with the IEDs, the the um ambush attacks and things like that out by the Syrian border in Talifar and Mosul. But similar experience, man, when it comes to like being in the wrong job. Fortunately, my leadership time was in transportation. Um going back, I wish I could have gone combat arms. But you worked so freaking hard, man, just to become a recon Marine. That's unbelievable that you were swimming in Olympic-sized pools wearing freaking sweatpants and sweat sweatsuits and and doing all that work. Um and yeah,$25,000, man, like for a year in literally in war, that's that's like two pennies uh compared. Now, when you became a uh recon marine, you know, because we want to get I want to get into decision making. So what does decision making look like when you're in combat when there's no room for that hesitation?

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Combat's a lot slower than people think.

Combat Decisions And A Grenade Mistake

Four Deployments And Becoming An Instructor

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Um a great example is uh do you know what an Australian peel is? No. So an Australian peel is a IA drill, immediate action, when you are on patrol and you're in a ranger file. And a way to get out of contact front, right? And this decision is made like is it within um is it within uh like are are we gonna assault or are we gonna bound back, right? And this is this tactic is typically designed for smaller units, right? So reconnaissance teams typically work in six to nine man teams. Uh in Afghanistan, you had to have uh your Afghan counterparts. So the smallest element we're ever in uh, and this is 2011, um, the smallest element you'll have is about 15 guys. Anyway, so you're in a ranger file and you take fire from the front. Um you you can do this from the left and right, but essentially you're gonna bound backwards. So uh the first guy dumps a mag full auto just to gain some sort of you know fire superiority. And then he, as soon as he goes dry, boom, he he turns and goes. And then the next guy dumps a mag, goes empty, turns and goes, and then you bound back. And I remember doing this IA drill hundreds of times. And um it's funny too, because like when you learn all these immediate action drills, it's taught like on a football field, right? Literally X's and O's, they show you on a board, and then you're doing it. And then once you hit it in the with terrain and the tree lines or buildings or compounds, um, I mean, it's uh for a small unit leader, like that is it's difficult, right? And it doesn't look like anything that you you trained for as far as like the nice L's and and shit like that, right? Um so in my experience, combat was a lot slower. So, like I said, doing this Australian peel over and over and over again, um I was in the second element that um uh let me back up. So essentially, another my sister platoon um an Iwins T went missing. Basically, it was a thermal clip-on um optic that could go in front of your uh ACOG on your M4. But nonetheless, it's it's a thermal sight. Well, it gets lost during Ashura or something. So someone makes the decision, command makes the decision, hey, we're gonna, you know, my platoon is gonna go reinforce this platoon, we're gonna co-locate, and then we're gonna send two elements out to clear this town uh house to house to find this optic. Mind you, the last time 3rd Recon Battalion went into this town, it was six platoons. It was it was a battalion operation to sweep through this fucking town called Malazi. And I mean, we took multiple casualties, it was a multi-day thing, it was it was a lot. And um, our whole purpose there was to screen like the eastern flank of the the infantry battalion to our west. Um, I actually got from um I think it's called battlefieldarchives.com, you can get like the war maps uh used operationally. So I got the infantry battalion's operational map, and I and they can't take anything away, but they can add stuff. So I had them put the third recon logo where we were at. And it was pretty cool because you could see exactly where we fit into the picture. So like you have the this so you can see my hands, like the battalion COC is here, and then you'll have like the rings of influence, which is typically the infantry doesn't extend beyond like mortar support, right? Um, or artillery support. Well, re battalion reconnaissance works just outside of the infantry, like artillery and mortar support uh and beyond. And then force reconnaissance works beyond that, right? And so it was pretty cool when I saw the rings, we were exactly at the the flot or the forward line of troops um for that infantry battalion. Anyway, so the idea is we're gonna send in two 15-man elements to go fucking house to house and find this Islands tea. And so we show up, um, the the gunners on the rooftops, uh the 240 gunners, they're just rocking and rolling away. And from our compound into the city was about it was like a 250, 300 meter run, uh, essentially in open, open fields. Um when we showed up, the so I wasn't in the mountains. I went to the Sangin Valley, where it was predominantly where they grow the poppy um in Afghanistan. And um, so the poppy harvest just ended, and uh this is before the corn season. Uh so it was just these open fields, dude. And so I was in the second element. Um machine gunners are rocking and rolling. I have this on headcam, it's it's in our platoon video. And um I remember sitting there and dude, the machine guns are going off. You know, we're taking fire, putting fire out, and we're just like standing by the door. And uh my platoon sergeant, Russ, he's one of my mentors, uh, the the one I was telling you about, like my my main one, uh which by the way, he was 45 uh when we were doing this, right? So he's a 45-year-old man running and gunning with 26-year-olds. And he just goes, yeah, and he starts fucking screaming. He's like, Yeah, boys. And uh he knew that we were fucking super nervous because everyone knew we're about to go run 300 meters in the open against two machine gun positions, friendly and enemy, that are going at it. And um finally, like, hey, second element move. And dude, like, you want to talk about I'm holding my rifle just by the uh the rails in the front, and you're just running, dude. And like you see the tracers going out, the tracers coming in, and we're like run, dodge, dip, diving uh through like these little any sort of micro terrain or cover, like these irrigation sewage ditches. We're just running as hard and as fast as you can. We move into the city, and I have a picture of this where I'm sitting by a door, and then Russ is next to me, and then Bobby Nicks, he was our com chief, he's sitting next to him. And um, so now it's our time to move again. And uh, oh, this is funny. So my company commander had a uh one of those squawk box kind of microphones on his rig, and so we could hear what's going on. And my battalion commander comes over the net and he's like, Hey, uh, I just don't want you guys to get decisively engaged. And like we all kind of look around here and we're like, you can see this on drone footage, dude. Like, we're pretty fucking engaged right now. So we get the order to move out. And the other element, I didn't know this till uh maybe 10 minutes after this, that they were jumping the rooftops to gain like higher positions, and then we took the low ground. So we're walking down this alleyway. It's probably 10, 12 feet wide, 20-foot mud walls in this town, and it was just this long, long danger area. And my buddy Dan, he's the point man, the team leader, Kosuke, he was number two, our two Afghan guys, me, my platoon sergeant, and then every other dickhead behind us. And we're walking down this alleyway, and all of a sudden I hear gunfire, and it's coming from the front. And it was so narrow that as soon as I came up like instinctively uh into my optic, like I see Dan in my optic, and like rounds are ripping down the alleyway. There's nowhere to go, right? So I check my gun down and I'm just fucking standing there, right? Because, you know, I don't know if someone's gonna shoot behind me. I don't I have no idea what's going on. I don't have a target in front of me, so I just have to stand here and fucking take it right now. And um, so from Dan's perspective, he rounds the corner and uh he's like, dude, there was a there was a guy in the black mandress, and he's like, they both surprised each other. And Dan was like, Yeah, we kind of just stopped. And then all of a sudden, like he pulls an RPD like up from his big ass uh uh cloth man dress, yeah, and so they're standing at each other, brrrrr, just shooting at at each other. Those are the rounds ripping down the alleyway, and um uh so anyway, I hear the team leader say, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna frag out. And this is my first time seeing a grenade thrown in combat. It's not my first time in in in engagement, it's not my first time I well, I guess not shooting, but uh this is my first time seeing a grenade thrown. Dude, I swear I'm telling you, I thought about Halo. And I was like, oh, because we're at like an L-shaped intersection, he's gonna throw frag and it's gonna go and explode. So I'm like mentally preparing myself because there's nowhere to go. There's no cover, you're just standing there. And dude, he throws a grenade and I'm leaning against the wall right here, and I feel a thud against the wall. I was like, what the hell? And I look down, dude. The grenade got caught on his sleeve. So as he went to throw it, it got caught on his sleeve, hit the wall like next to him, and landed at his feet. This is like 15, maybe 15 meters in front of me. And I see the grenade at his feet. The last thing I see is if this is a grenade, the last thing I see is him thinking about picking up and throwing it back. And I, dude, I turn, I grab Russ by the I just dropped my rifle, it's slung around my neck. I grab Russ by his uh chest straps, and um, he's maybe 6'2 or 6'3, so a little bit taller. So I so his like mouth is like right in front of my eyes. And he always chewed red man when we were there, uh, the the leaf tobacco. So it'd always be like dripping down his face. And uh I just grab him and I'm like, get back. He didn't even see it. And he and he looked at me, and dude, dude, time like went back to normal. And he goes, Why are you yelling, boy? And then boom, the the grenade goes off, and like this dust clad just like goes down the alleyway. And um, dude, I'm like kind of stunned, and then I hear support, support, support. I hear the the front guys calling for support, and um I was kind of uh vapor locked, and then I see Tony Moro running past me with a saw gun, and that kind of snapped me out of it, and I see him run past, I was like, with you, and then we round the corner. Um, I I look down, I see Kosuke, the team leader, just walking around, just like totally fucking stunned. And then I see uh the point man, Dan, with his gun up like this, just kind of like staring. And he always ran a shorty mag of tracers, and that would be his first 20 rounds that he dumps, and then he would reload. I remember looking at him being like, yo, reload. And I look down, I see an Afghan army guy holding his side, he's bleeding. Uh so now I have a casualty. And then I hear like, yo, Kivel, and I like look up, and it was the other element on top of the roofs as they were jumping rooftops. They're like, Where are they? I'm like, dude, they're right, they're right here, man. And so I look down the alleyway and I see another, like another turn, and I was like, fuck no. So I run down the alleyway and like I hold security there. And And um so we uh now we have a casualty, right? So we gotta pull back. So we we pull back. Um and my element was the the the first one. So if you can imagine there was that that main road that I was telling you about, not the main road, but the road that we just came down. And then on the other side, there was a parallel road that led to compound 21. Compound 21 was basically key terrain for that town from the east side. So sometimes the Taliban held it, sometimes we held it, but whoever held that kind of owned like that entire sector because all the, you know, like I said, it was completely open. So my element, we make it back. And uh the second element, and this is uh well, our interpreter's name is Ali, he filmed this whole thing with a Sony camera in his hand, like this. So the second element is moving back, but the the fighters had already occupied compound 21. So when the second element started getting engaged, um, or or they were passing through, they got engaged. And they essentially they had to Australian peel out. And this is like on film. But what's interesting, and this is this is long story longer, to my whole point of where combat is slow, um they like it's like so in training, it's like brrrrrrr moving, move, and then they go brrrr next I'm moving, move. And it's like the super fast thing. And I remember instructors being like, this needs to be fast as fuck, boy, right? Like, and now I'm watching this happen and on on film, and it's just like dot dot. Hey, I'm moving. What? What? Hey, I'm moving, oh, move. And guys are shooting 203 into the door. Um, we were denied air support, denied a bunch of shit. We'd be like, What do they want us to use? Harsh language, like from aliens. And um, so all we had was like our rifles, the machine guns on the rooftops, and then our 203. And so I would explain that to guys in training where I'm like, dude, like it's much slower than than we trained for. So I'd always try to when I taught, right, like what is the appropriate tempo for what we're doing? So like the course that we interacted with, like that by design, uh close quarters battle, that is a fast and furious type of thing. Um, and it needs to be uh for certain phases, right? But when you're fighting out in the open, right, like it's it's much, much slower. Um, but in terms of like decision making, I wasn't I wasn't a I wasn't a team leader on that deployment. Uh my role was the um I was like the assistant platoon sergeant or like the special equipment NCO. So I kind of made myself a like a multi-tool. So like if a point man went down, I could run point. If they needed another gun in a team, I could run, I could run with them. I could kind of jump, you know, because we ran two Nyman elements. Um so like I didn't really make any like big impactful like decisions other than like little micro decisions within my immediate uh like sphere of influence or like my um uh like my immediate area. I guess um the only time I really made a decision uh was when we did that battalion push that I was telling you about the first time we went into Malazai. And um we finished uh the clear, so we're like in our this is our remain overnight position, and I'm up on the the rooftops and I get up there, and again, this is 2011, dude. And the nice thing about being a recon platoon, like you have so many guns, like you have every weapon system essentially that the infantry can carry. So you go up on a position and you've got machine guns, sniper rifles. It looked like something out of Call of Duty. You'd have fucking grenade launchers, the six-shoters, fucking everything, laser range finders, all the things. So I get up there and I'm laser range finding, just get getting acclimated to now my sectors. And um, there was like this break in the wall. It was about 114 meters in front of me. But there were like five random corn husks just like oddly placed there. And I'm like looking into the there was like an orchard behind it, and so it was like dark. And I remember just like looking in, and the the uh the laser rangefinders had like limited zoom, but I saw like a flicker of light. I was like, that was weird. So I was like, hey, so I call over all my friends. I'm like, yo, Ryan, and Ryan, we had three, there were two four Ryan's in the platoon, but two of them were up on the roof with me. So I was like, hey, Ryan, come over here. He had a sniper rifle, the other Ryan had a uh grenade launcher. Um, my best friend, um, he's my son's godfather. Uh, I'm his daughter's godfather. He was up there, he was our JTAC. And I call a machine gunner over. And so we, you know, position ourselves and I give them an an ad rack, just like I'd done in training like a hundred times, like, you know, alert, direction, range, you know, how we're gonna do this. And uh and this was actually our first time uh any of us like pulled the trigger, right? Um, and it I will say that that was just like training. And so Ryan with the sniper rifle, uh, I think it was a SAS 110, he gets up there with the the 20 power uh optic and he immediately starts engaging. And uh he didn't have a suppressor on, uh, so it kind of like like I wasn't expecting it. I was like, what do you see? He's like, we're staring at a machine gun. And then like we all pop up, we all start engaging. And um this was funny too. Uh our sister company, they trained some of their dudes to um shoe mortars. So they were humping out mortar, like I think they were 30 millimeter. None of the not the big ones, maybe maybe it was the 60. I don't remember. Anyway, so uh Chris is calling in a fire mission, and they do one round and adjust. So the first round goes out, it lands like in the orchard, but like uh on the right side. And we're all like, hey, that was pretty good for first time. And then uh Chris calls in to do one more round and adjust and then uh fire for effect. And so we hear, you know, shot over, shot out. Dude, I'm looking like this, and all of a sudden it's like boom, and it was some math got messed up or something. It was supposed to be like right 50, up 50, it was down 50, left 50. It it almost hit our our position. And Chris was like, ceasefire, ceasefire, like, hey, we're done. Um but that was the only, I would say, decision I made uh in in in combat. The rest of the time, it was I was more of a support guy for the team leaders and my platoon leadership.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Yeah, I didn't mean to gloss over your time as a recon marine and your deployments um as a recon marine. We talked about your mortuary affairs. How many times were you deployed in total?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

Um four. Um, so my first deployment was to Iraq. Uh, my second one uh I was after I went to schools and everything. I was on a uh foreign internal defense or uh Met team, uh military uh training team in South America. Um the way they built the team was like two guys from every uh MOS within the um the MagTap, the Marine Air Air Ground Task Force. So it'd be like two recount guys, two infantry guys, two com guys, two logo guys, two Intel guys, you know, and we would go down to these countries and we would work with our counterparts. Um I did that for like two years, and uh that but that's where I cut my teeth like as an instructor. Um I went to like our version of the marksmanship school, I went to our version of the the swim instructor school, and then I went to the army's recon school and some other schools. And so that was the first time where I had to learn how to instruct, and now I'm dealing with language barriers. Um oddly enough, uh they sent us to this fob in uh Colombia called Buenaventura, and they called it La Isla. It was a peninsula, but it was basically an island. It was maybe a thousand, a thousand, it was less than a thousand meters, and then like two, two hundred, maybe a hundred at its finest part. You had to take a boat out there. But our role was we would run um uh Colombian infantry companies through like a final FTX before they would go deploy, and they deployed from that island or the peninsula on foot from that fog. And so our like land nav training areas were all like everyone's conditioned one, everyone's got live ammo and everything. Um but that was the longest I went without a shower. Uh that was 87 days, uh, no shower. Um yeah, Afghanistan, the longest I went was like 70 some days before we would rotate back to Camp Leatherneck for a couple of days and then go back out. Um, but yeah, I did that for about two years. And then by that time frame, uh essentially, you know, even though I was a reservist, I'd done about five years of active duty time within that that time frame. Um, the way reservists work is like you would get 365-day orders and then you could just re-up on those orders. So there were a lot of guys from my generation who just kept re-upping on orders or they would go to schools and then deploy again. Uh so that was my second deployment. And then I got on with the the agency that that we both worked for, and then uh I went to that academy, and then I went to Afghanistan shortly after that um in 2011 at the Battle of Sangin. And then I didn't really deploy for a little bit after that. Um, and then my last deployment was in 2017, 2018, uh, when I took a platoon out to Southeast Asia um with Third Recon again uh to reinforce that battalion, do all the exercises there. This was in around the time President Trump did the it was like that big meeting with North Korea, and like everyone was kind of like worried about that. Um so that was like another reason that our pol, you know, our battalion supported uh the active component. So um yeah.

Part One Close And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_00 1:18:02

So I I met you just after the Battle of Sangin that uh your 2011 uh uh deployment. Yeah. I remember I was sitting in a cold vehicle with you and you and we were talking about our experiences, and I was like, yeah, when I was a transporter, I used to know like the best de facts, so I would purposely try to stay for the best breakfasts and certain ones and whatever, and then you're talking about buying a goat for your entire platoon, and I'm like, what are you talking about right now? That's fucking crazy to me. But um, I'll take this out. I'm I do post-editing, but do you have enough time to continue? Yeah. You do okay, cool. Yo, man, I'm gonna cut this into two episodes. So, the because this has been an hour now, so I'm gonna I'm gonna round off this one and then we're gonna jump into the Warhammer decision making and all that other stuff. Hey folks, I really appreciate you joining us on this journey that we're on right now. So, this is part one of a part two series. I hope that you're really interested in the story. I know that I was very interested in hearing Mike's story as well. Um, for those of us that were in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, it seems like as the years go on, as the calendar months fall off the wall, we are getting further and further away from a time of our lives that was uh full of trials and tribulations. So join us for part two next week. If you're not following me on Instagram, you can find me at the Military Podcaster, the same with TikTok as well. And please follow me here on YouTube, or if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever you may be listening to me, uh just please follow me and support the uh the podcast. I really appreciate it. And for everyone else out there, as always, I want you to stay tuned, stay focused, and stay motivated. Warriors, fall out.